G2 R.I.P Ammunition – Gimmick or Godsend?

It was only a matter of time before someone reintroduced the ultimate man stopper projectile, this time it comes in the form of the Radically Invasive Projectile or R.I.P. The product is from the creative minds at G2 Research and it does appear to be somewhat unique in its design and performance. The marketing blitz behind this new ammo has been epic and as such I’ve been inundated with requests for my opinion on the new cartridge.

RIP Trocar

The R.I.P. bullet features eight “trocars” which are designed to separate from the core upon impact with soft tissue.

The R.I.P. round is machined from solid copper and features eight “trocars”, or individual fingers that are designed to peel away from the core upon impact with tissue. The use of the word “trocar” to describe these barbs is interesting because in a traditional sense they are surgical instruments used to insert a cannula into a body cavity as a drainage outlet. Is G2 Research trying to lend a air of medical legitimacy to the projectile, or perhaps they thought it sounded intimidating? <shrug> Either way, it adds to the overall marketing strategy of presenting the R.I.P. bullet as being hyper-lethal and designed to inflict maximum damage.

The entire 9mm projectile weighs 96 grains and is claimed to leave the muzzle at 1265fps generating 370 ft/lbs or joules of muzzle energy (they don’t say which and this figure has changed from 490 in the last 24 hours on their website). Upon impact with tissue the eight “trocars” rapidly separate from the core and head-off into eight different directions with the core creating a 9th wound channel. It appears that the “trocars” penetrate no more than 6″-8″ judging by the video posted by the manufacturer on YouTube. I don’t have a sample bullet to inspect, but my guess is that the core retains a weight around 50 grains or less (about the same as a .22LR) and is claimed to penetrate 16″ of ballistic gelatin, or roughly twice as deep as the “trocars”.

G2 Research claims that the R.I.P. projectile will penetrate sheetrock, plywood, auto glass, cinderblocks, sheet metal and multiple layers of denim without deformation. Once a barrier is penetrated and soft tissue is hit, they claim the R.I.P. projectile then begins its rapid expansion yet still maintains the ability to penetrate deep enough to inflict a lethal wound (12″+ by FBI standards).

RIP bullet expansion in gel

This still taken from the G2 Research marketing video posted to YouTube (see below) shows impressive wounding and penetration in ballistics gel.

If all of the claims are true, the R.I.P. could prove to be a reasonably lethal cartridge and certainly accomplishes more than previous attempts such as the hyper-velocity loads by Liberty Ammunition that fall short of the FBI penetration requirements for effective incapacitation. That’s a big “IF” though. Since I’ve yet to see a comprehensive 3rd party test of the ammo, all we have to go on are the claims of the manufacturer which can be a bit exaggerated. I’m not saying that G2 Research is being dishonest, I’m saying I’m being the eternal pessimist and will reserve judgement until I have the chance to test the ammo myself.

Aside from the performance of the ammo, there’s the issue of the marketing behind it. I would not carry this ammo for self defense because of the liability the manufacturer has created by their overly aggressive marketing campaign. While the use of the ammo in a legal self defense shooting probably wouldn’t expose the shooter to criminal charges based upon the marketing of the ammo, a civil court would likely have a field day if the family of the deceased decided to sue.

Step back to 1991 and the introduction of Black Talon ammo produced by Winchester Olin Corp. Black Talon had perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion in soft tissue. The bullet was certainly more conventional than the new R.I.P. bullet in that it wasn’t designed to fragment, only to expand much like any other conventional hollow point bullet. The single unique feature, aside from the black oxide “Lubalox” coating, were the pedals of the expanded hollow point bullet were sharper than other products on the market. Some claimed the tips were razor like.

The Black Talon was quickly decried by anti-gun forces and the Main Stream Media ran with horror stories of doctors expressing concern their fingers would be sliced by the sharp shards while trying to surgically remove bullets from victims, however there were no documented reports of this actually happening. In 1993 the ammunition was used by Colin Ferguson to commit mass murder on a Long Island Rail Road in Garden City, New York. This prompted the family of one of Fergusons’ victims to sue Winchester claiming they were liable for the shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing and sale of Black Talon ammo. The court case was dismissed when the judge held that the bullets were not defective in their design. Had the plaintiff sued because they felt the ammo was purposely designed to cause excessive damage, things may have gone differently for Winchester Olin Corp.

Winchester realized their marketing of the product exposed them to future civil suits and voluntarily pulled Black Talon from the market. Soon after pulling Black Talon from the shelves, Winchester introduced the SXT line of hollow points, sans the marketing hype used to promote the Black Talon brand, and it has remained on the market since. The SXT bullet uses the same design as the Black Talon with the only real difference being it doesn’t sport the black oxide finish.

Am I interested in the R.I.P.? Yes, but only because I want to test it in ballistics gel. Would I carry the R.I.P. for self defense? Absolutely not, the manufacturers have marketed it in such a way that I believe it presents a potential legal liability in civil court should I be involved in a self defense shooting. I’ll stick with my 147gr 9mm Gold Dots for now.

MAC

MAC is an avid shooter, former MCSF Marine, Armed Citizens United board member, NRA member, Oath Keeper and is commissioned as a Colonel by the Governor of Kentucky. Known for his videos on the Military Arms Channel, he also writes for The Bang Switch, for Shotgun News (Be Ready!) and freelances for Guns & Ammo. MAC has been a life long shooter who has an interest in all things that go "bang" but gravitates towards military type firearms.

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  • Frankie Gaetani

    I thought the same thing when i saw the advertisement last week. The black talon controversy popped right into my mind.

  • Matthew Henik

    It seems like a more legitimate round than the Multiple Impact round. I, like you, am curious to see how it performs.

  • T. Crowe

    My first thought upon seeing this round was that it was the Black Talon reborn. Having just completed both Criminal Law and Torts as a 1L law student I think you are spot on when you distinguish between the possible outcomes of a civil suit when compared to the criminal side of the law. Now, as a lowly 1L I’m certainly no expert in the matter but my instinct is to stick with a bullet that has not been specifically marketed as an overly devastating projectile.

    • Military Arms Channel

      As you know, you can sue anyone for just about anything. Could you imagine sitting through the G2 Research marketing video posted to YouTube as the plaintiff showed it to a jury?

      • Workman

        Plaintiff’s Exhibit #1.

  • No Fly Wade

    I am sure DHS will stockpile this round as well if it works as advertised.

  • Darrin

    A friend of mine on Facebook posted something about this round recently. I did some calculations. That’s not 460 ft/lbs of energy. Its 460 JOULES. Its actually only 341 ft/lbs. Tricky advertising by not listing the units on the muzzle energy. So I did my own math :)

    • Dameander

      I noticed the same thing when my friend sent me an article and I immediately called B.S. because a round that light at that velocity couldn’t produce that much foot pounds of energy but then I saw the conversion to Joules.

  • Randy Reinke

    My thoughts mirror everything stated in this article.

    • AGreenSmudge

      I concur.

  • Jhuff

    I see a safety issue more than anything; what if you miss center mass and it hits an arm? If it over penetrates the arm you have a lot of projectiles that can harm bystanders.

    • dustin

      You would have the same problem with almost every other self-defense round as well for the majority of them fragment upon impact anymore.

      • Jhuff

        “[A]lmost every other self-defense round”

        Hollow points, ball, FMJ, JHP, etc. don’t fragment generally. This fragments rather quickly, it is designed to on contact with soft tissue. I’m saying if you don’t hit the bone dead-on in an arm it is likely to leave, which is more likely to happen with this vs. regular 9mm ammo.

        • Will Mullaney

          Who cares if it fragments or doesn’t? If you miss and hit an arm with 9mm ball, or miss all together, you still have a likelihood of hitting an unintended target, which might end up being a person depending on the situation. Hitting an unintended target with a 115 grain bullet is likely as bad if not more bad than hitting them with one of the petals from this round.

          • Jhuff

            If course it is. I’m not disagreeing with you there. A full bullet hitting somebody is worse than a petal/trocar thing. But with the fragmenting design, you have 8 petals plus the remaining bullet itself that can hit. It increases the chance somebody will get hurt or that multiple people will get hit. That’s all I’m pointing out.

  • Brian Bromley

    From watching the video several times, it appears to me that the gel blocks that they use are lacking some density that I normally see in other tests. This makes me question the ability for the rounds to adequately penetrate.

    • Military Arms Channel

      Since G2 Research doesn’t disclose the specifics of their testing, we can only speculate as to the veracity of their tests. I will reseve comment and judgement on the performance of the R.I.P. ammo until I have a chance to fire some into my own 10% gel.

  • smurf

    These super high end ammo offerings are interesting to read about. Similarly so are reviews for $200K supercars. Even if these prove twice as good (as if that could be so simply qualified), they will be price prohibitive for high volume shooting.

    I have to think the ballistics could vary enough from convetional rounds to warrant dedicated practice.

  • Sam Wilson

    The marketing push is an interesting detail to pay attention to. I was not involved in the firearms culture when Black Talon ammo was introduced, but I have never seen a self defense round promoted by its manufacturer as aggressively as G2′s RIP ammo. Waiting to see some third party testing would be the best solution. I am in no hurry to change from my every day carry ammo to something I know nothing about.

    • Mike Hasel

      Exactly.. A solution in search of a problem…Extremely Frangible ammo like this reminds me of the uproar over “cop
      killer” teflon bullets, and more recently, the 5.7mm AP rounds… The
      outrage hasn’t come yet on these – do you really want the bad guys to use this against you? I can see someone using these being hung out to dry for using “killer ammo” and looking for trouble. While independent tests haven’t been seen yet, you have to question the motive of using a projectile that causes massive surface tissue damage but fails to penetrate deep enough to stop the threat. Something that intentionally fragments and disperses on impact seems to me to also be a surgeons nightmare… I plan to stick to the tried and true carry ammo that demonstrates responsible intent rather than implied vigilante-ism.

      • Robert Herbert

        yeah, i’ll stick with my 180 grain hst.

  • http://rumblestripradio.com rumblestrip

    I am shocked, SHOCKED to see someone promoting a “magic bullet”! Funny to see the internet forums and message boards all geeked up about this. If this was the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time something like this had come through, maybe. While I am about the last person in the world to poo poo innovation, I also know that making broad statements about totally unproven, and un verified is laughable.

  • charles

    Why should any American citizen fear a civil lawsuit in a justifiable self defense case? Are you saying the Law is in the criminal’s favor?

    • Stijn Vandamme

      because a civil lawsuit is a crapshoot due to the fact that either side may request a jury trial.. and in such cases the dead perp’s family will most definitely do so, because jury’s can be swayed when douchebag lawyers making up all kinds of emotional stories vs leaving it up to “facts”.

      • justinhohn

        Exactly. You can have the law on your side and still lose because of the knuckleheads who weren’t clever enough to get out of jury duty.

      • charles

        Are there many cases like you warn about where the good guy gets raked over the coals for doing the right thing?

        • Military Arms Channel

          There is one I recall off the top of my head from 2004. Arizona vs. Fish. It was brought up in court that he used a 10mm with hollow point ammo. An expert testified that the 10mm wasn’t commonly used for personal protection. He claimed it was excessive. Fish was convicted of 2nd degree murder. Ultimately, through appeal, he was acquitted but not after racking up major debt trying to defend himself.

          http://caselaw.findlaw.com/az-court-of-appeals/1176069.html

          • charles

            What a sad state of affairs we 2nders find ourselves in…

          • charles

            Boy, what is it with people freaking out about dogs like they are people? The guy from Arizona shoulda put the dogs down and taken off running from the retard who would let aggressive dogs prowl a park.

    • KFeltenberger

      A civil case has a lower threshold for proof than does a criminal case. A criminal case requires that the jury be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, while in a civil case all that is needed is a preponderance of evidence. Even if you successfully defend yourself in a civil trial, you’ll likely to have been dragged through the mud and still be out $10-50k or more.

      • charles

        Man-maybe I should rethink my conviction to carry a weapon…seems the deck is stacked against justice

        • MJA

          You may be out money…but you’ll still have your life.

  • Drmaudio

    As you pointed out, this is not the first attempt at ballistic performance through a high velocity, fragmenting round. They have been around since at least ’75. They have not been widely adopted for a reason. Having said that, innovation is always good, but the aggressive marketing and the apparent use of marketing tricks make me skeptical (judging by their own numbers in terms of penetration, the gelatin block in the picture above is unusually small, creating the impression of much better performance). I will continue to buy rounds that don’t require over-the-top marketing hype to be successful.

  • Matt

    Concerns about over penetration, leaving the little projectiles to injure people seems to be a non-issue. If you watch the video again and pay special attention to the little buggers, as they exit the top the gel, after only penetrating a few inches, they hardly have any force as they come out. Watch as they hit the wood behind the ballistic gel… Perhaps getting struck in the eye would be a concern, but when you’re protecting your life, and need to use your weapon, there is always the concern with bystanders. If anything, being as the little projectile that is roughly 50 grains after the barbs are shredded off, if it were to wing someone, then continue and hit a bystander, perhaps the damage would be less lethal? Since it’s rather light? Eh I dunno. Just speculation. What’s sad is that we’re questioning whether or not we can use a BULLET due to it possibility of being OVER EFFECTIVE! LOL!

    • DV

      After the Gulf War, the US Army downgraded the Sabot rounds fired from M1 Abrams tanks, because they were “over-effective” Why pay more for unnessary/wasted penetration.

  • charles

    Did they hire Batman to do the voiceover for that commercial? “The Last round you’ll ever need…”

    • http://gunchannels.com/profile/Odiex27 Odiex27

      That VO is horrible. All that pretty CG and then they use a VO that no one can take seriously.

    • Karina

      Here I thought Batman was anti-gun.

  • justinhohn

    For the cost and “effectiveness” of these things, I’d think 3-4 Gold Dots would be much more effective AND cheaper.

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  • RPM509

    This whole things screams gimmick and snake oil, so much so that I am embarrassed for a lot of ‘names in industry’ that are screaming about the ‘Do’s’ of this bullet before they’ve tested it for themselves. The Emperor has no clothes…

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  • ChrisJ

    I bet it doesn’t perform well in independent testing…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjEInKBgFc

  • orca

    While we do not fully agree in some things, you are spot on with this
    It would not be the first time the hype did not work as advertised and caused a problem for the person relying on the hype
    For me, 230 Grain round nose at 850 fps works without question, no gee wiz or hype, reliable for over 100 years what worked for my father on Guadalcanal and grandpa at Belleau Wood with black Jack Pershing where he earned the title Teufel Hunden (Devil Dog) works for me
    He often told me of how the Germans feared his 45 more than his 03, simply put it worked every time, no hype.

  • Brent Gaskey

    I’m still wondering why they didn’t include four layers of denim on their ballistics gel test. That right there told me they were more interested in hype that what the actual projectile could do.

  • Brent Gaskey

    Perhaps we will see a 7000 fps flechette from them next?

  • enscriptchun

    Nice article, MAC. Time to insert the obligatory PE…

    “Don’t Believe the Hype”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK8sxngSWaU

  • Jacen

    My PDX-1s do the job for me. I don’t need 8 potential shrapnel flying around and leaving my target to hit other people.

  • Ryan

    I felt the same way when I saw these. Just the look of them is enough to have the anti-gunners get into a frenzy.

  • shooter144

    Isn’t it sad that in today’s world we must fear using “too much lethality” in a “lethal” confrontation? If you have a legal right to shoot, you have a legal right to be as lethal as possible.

    • Duder

      You have to take human error and just plain bad luck into account though. You absolutely have a right to protect yourself with lethal force if faced with a potentially lethal threat. But when you become focused on as much damage in the smallest package, what happens when you miss, and hit a bystander? Even the best shooter in the world isn’t perfect, and 90% of those who carry a gun for self defense are far from that lofty level of skill and training.
      And there are those out there who have a somewhat different perspective on self defense. There are probably people on this site that believe gunning down a home invader as they flee is perfectly within their rights and that they were completely justified in doing so. And on the other side, there are those who prefer to stay further from lethality and only use lethal force in the most desperate of situations. And there are plenty who are somewhere in the middle.
      We are all responsible for our actions and the results of those actions. If you use ammunition that is overkill for the situation and an innocent person gets hurt in the process, that is on you and not on your attacker. Obviously it’s not the same as harming that person in another situation, but it’s still your round and therefore it is YOUR responsibility. If you can live with that, then by all means, live that way. But don’t expect everyone else to feel the same, and don’t expect the law to either.
      This round just doesn’t seem effective enough to really be worth any of the potential trouble. Self defense should not be about lethality, just because a lethal shot isn’t insuring your life any more than a disabling one. A fragmenting round might kill the guy, but will it be faster at disabling him? That’s far more important to your safety when threatened than how lethal the round is. If you could paralyze the guy without killing him immediately that’d be far better for your livelihood than killing him necessarily will be, regardless of your philosophy on self defense.
      End of the day, this looks like a gimmick at best. Even if it is more lethal, it’s sure to have shortcomings that make it a questionable choice.

  • Will

    Mac you wouldn’t come right out and say it but I will, this bullet is BS. Its snake oil plain and simple. Those pedals won’t penetrate enough to do any real damage, and neither they nor the base retain enough weight to damage anything they do hit in my opinion. On top of that, these things will probably cost 2-3 times more than quality hollow points since they are a machined bullet. I will stick with time tested Hydro-shoks or choose any quality hollowpoint over these. Hell, I would take a conventional round nose bullets over these.

    • Military Arms Channel

      I won’t come out and say anything about the performance of the bullet until I have conducted my own tests. Once I have done my own testing, I’ll say exactly what I think. Until then, it’s all speculation — something I try to avoid.

  • Jay

    Sage advice ” the manufacturers have marketed it in such a way that I believe it presents a potential legal liability in civil court should I be involved in a self defense shooting.” One of the reasons not to jump onto the Zombie BS bandwagon.

  • DonTapouT

    It’s already begun. This was one of the things I was most concerned about when I first saw the company’s video, that it seems interesting and I would like to investigate it further,but that they may have shot themselves in the foot (no pun intended) with their over the top marketing.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547765/New-devastating-hollow-R-I-P-bullet-dubbed-round-need-released-single-women-protect-homes.html

  • Paelorian

    There’s nothing revolutionary about this projectile. Evolutionary, maybe. Lehigh Defense pioneered this concept and made it effective in their Controlled Fracturing ammunition. The difference is that Lehigh Defense didn’t promote their product with hyperbolic over-the-top marketing. I don’t believe the unproven hype, and while I’ll be looking at the independent terminal ballistics testing (I’m sure ShootingTheBull410 will do it properly to official standards), I doubt this new round will be superior to rounds already on the marketplace. As MAC points out in this article, their aggressive marketing is a liability for lawful civilian users. For that reason alone I would probably prefer to buy similarly performing ammunition from Lehigh Defense, although I favor more traditional non-fragmenting expanding hollow-point rounds at the moment. See TWANGnBANG’s review of the 105gr 9mm Controlled Fracturing rounds here: http://youtu.be/FxKEIBqop6I

  • Tiffany Witz

    So if one of the fragments exits your target and hits someone else…you think that’s going to fair well for the shooter, the un intended target, or gun rights?

    • Robert Herbert

      trust me that tiny little sliver of copper will not even penetrate a cotton shirt after over penetrating first target.

  • stat Eng

    Hey Tim, you switched back to gold dot from hornady?

  • Cincinatus

    Worst ammo commercial ever!

  • pcman312

    There are a lot of problems with this ammo that I see. But ultimately, one of the biggest factors is cost. This is going to be $2-3 per round. If it costs $50 for a box of 20, are you really going to practice with it? Or would you rather get speer GD’s for $0.50/round that are going to be just as effective? A pistol is a pistol, there isn’t a whole lot that can be done to increase its lethality without increasing the muzzle energy.

  • PaCo SGM(R)

    Reminds me of the “cookie cutter” rounds Delta was trying out back in the late 80′s early 90′s that would cut a perfect circle in Kevlar body armor.
    I forget what round that was marketed as being able to expand to the size of a baseball in the media, comical but it made them sell if I recall.
    Until further information gets out I wouldn’t do more then buy a box as a conversation piece in the future.

  • Caleb

    Good review of the ammo from what you know, I find it hard to get me away from the 124 grain gold dots or Pdx1 by winchester which is similar to the Talon. So many good rounds out there nowadays.

  • Frosty_The_White_Man

    It looks like a Graboid.

  • MrApple

    I’ll stick to my Gold Dots, HST, Critical Defense, PDX1, Ranger T-Series, and Golden Sabers, in that order.

  • Mark Langley

    You raise a strong point. In 1991 I was 7 in the state of California and I was not raised in a household with guns. But I remember local California news touting Black Talons like they were Sabot rounds that would not only kill police officers but turn them into ash piles after fragmenting and hitting kids at the local park.

    I remember this also because when I came of age to own guns the first thing I looked for weren’t hollowpoints, but Black Talons. Never thought to look into the back story until you mentioned it.

  • Chad Baker

    I look forward to a MAC range test video.

    The bullet sounds interesting but I’m skeptical. (I kinda want it to fail…) They need to stop the wannabe marketing (Compensating for something?) with the full auto pistols and the “I wanna sound SF” voice. You don’t sound cool or even tacticool. Oh, the name… R.I.P., not impressed!

    Rant complete.

  • http://gunchannels.com/profile/Odiex27 Odiex27

    Thank you for a healthy dose of skepticism, and I mean that sincerely. Since the advent of the hollow point, I really see no reason to reinvent the wheel with something like this or that joke known as the multiple impact bullet. (http://mibullet.com/)

    Shot placement wins the fight. If you learn to do that, you don’t need a gimmick to protect yourself.

  • Max

    So it’s kind of like an attempt at a 9mmluger version of Barnes TSX?

  • Never Go Full Yeager

    The Media has already picked up on this ammo and started running stories on it; because of the way they are marketing it. Looks like it will be another “Black Talon” like controversy. – http://www.whio.com/news/news/new-ammo-obliterates-targets-shocking-video/nc4CG/http://www.ketknbc.com/news/new-ammo-already-sold-out – Also this stuff is being auctioned off for over $300 a box as of this post. So, if you really want a box, better get it while you can. I don’t expect this ammo to be around for very long. And for the record, I’m not buying the hype. – http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=389301619

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  • goyaathle

    I shot a goat with the Black talon before they took it off the market and the goat when down immediately. The lungs and heart were torn to shreds. The bullet tore threw it like a buzz saw. I went back to the Magsafe rounds. The Talon did just to much internal damage. When I worked for the Department of Corrections we had to shoot an inmate with the 9mm “safety slug” round and it was a one stop shot. They took the nine away from us saying that the “safety slug” which had like a plastic cover over the loose birdshot would dissolve from too much handling and come apart before leaving the barrel making the bullet ineffective. I think it was because it did too much damage. We were issued the 9mm safety slug in the MP5 because it wouldn’t ricochet inside a building like a .223 does.

  • Erik
  • 8OOlbGorilla

    “The use of the word “trocar” to describe these barbs is interesting because..”

    The root of “trocar” is “three squares,” modern trocar instruments are used for a variety of purposes, not just drainage but also insertion of other tools.

    I suspect the selection of the term was a result of 1) the angular design of the bard and 2) their claim that it saws through barriers, allowing the slug (the other tool) to follow behind.

    Unfortunately they had to market it in such a dramatic fashion, with full-auto Glocks and so forth. It will certainly bring attention the firearms community doesn’t need or want.

  • Terry

    Good write-up, Mac. Just wondering, I’m rather new to firearms, why do you prefer the 147 gr. over the other loads like the 115 gr.?

    • Gabe

      Generally speaking, heavier bullets are preferred for self defense. They usually penetrate deeper and transfer more energy into the target.

  • Dong Blak

    R.I.P.O.F.F.

  • darkcyder

    I agree wit the assessment of legality as opposed to lethality. Should it be the goal of the shooter to send his opponent to the morgue as opposed to the hospital? Many would say yes, because there’s less chance for lawsuit from a dead perpetrator. With an ordinary bullet, there’s probably a chance that the opponent will survive if the shot is placed correctly. However, this bullet seems to have “surviving family” lawsuits written all over it.

  • Ted A Sames II

    I have seen many rounds be placed on the market and most, I have tested or was able to see tested. Notice: They did not actually state that this round was tested by an independent testing lab using the FBI Protocol Test. They mentioned the different barriers that they used but not the actual test. You can not get more energy than you put into. Smaller, lighter and less aerodynamic projectiles penetrate LESS. This is what kills: When the projectile destroys a vital organ. To destroy that vital organ, it has to penetrate through bone, fat, muscle, windshields, car bodies…etc. This is a tall order for the bullet to perform well through barriers and then penetrate an organ. Many pre-fragmented projectiles leave nasty but shallow flesh wounds but nothing else. I would like to see this round put to the test. Hornady’s Critical Duty and Speer Gold Dots are designed from police work and have passed the Protocol Testing. Ted A Sames II, SISSTRAINING.COM

  • smitty6398

    Well, I can remember cutting a + in my .22LR bullets when I was a teen in the 1950′s. Sure put down the jackrabbits, and most coyotes went down on first shot.

  • Kali_Refugee

    I find the uber penetration but instant expansion in flesh claim dubious. Usually a bullet is good at one of the other. Also considering how flesh is softer than barriers how can it be unaffected by that yet be fragile enough to fragment going through a water ballon? Color me skeptical.

  • Riggs2500

    If it looks mean to a liberal it will be outlawed in New York. I’m going to have to paint or engrave a happy face on my 45 acp ball ammo now. Maybe a warning on the bullet to duck; it only flies at 800 fps. New York is so screwed up; where liberals rule insanity and stupidity follow.
    Civil suits should never be allowed by criminals families.