Import Ban on 7N6 5.45×39

Rumors have been circulating that last two days that the BATF has stopped the importation of steel core 5.45×39 ammo. After reading this news on social media, I’m sure many of you fired up your browser and gave Google a thorough workout trying to find a copy of the official BATF letter that gives the smack down to cheap 7N6 ammo… and like me you were probably unable to find such a letter.

That’s probably because such a letter doesn’t currently exist.

The rumor stems from an importer who had filed a Form 6 to bring in a shipment of 7N6 surplus ammo from Russia. The form approval went well past 2 weeks, which is the normal time frame for a Form 6 to be approved by the BATF. The importer emailed the BATF to find out what was going on with this particular import request and received this email response back.

batf letter 5.45x39

The importer wishes to remain anonymous because of the backlash that’s certain to come from the darkest corners of the internet. Can you blame them? After all, no good deed goes unpunished online.

What’s interesting is that the Form 6 hasn’t been rejected yet, which would be the normal procedure. It appears the ATF is simply sitting on Form 6′s for steel core 5.45×39 ammo for some reason. I suspect they’re waiting for a formal ruling to come down from the BATF brass before the official denial letters are sent out.

So, has the ATF definitively shut off all steel core 7N6 5.45×39 imports? Not officially, but it looks as though there is something afoot, and that “something” doesn’t look pretty.

This wouldn’t be the first time the BATF had shutoff imports of steel core rifle ammo because someone made a pistol that chambered it. Back in 1994 Olympic Arms screwed over American gun owners by manufacturing a 7.62×39 AR15 pistol. The moment they ran ads for the new pistol the BATF came down like a hammer and shutoff all 7.62×39 ammo imports that featured steel cores.  The Gun Zone has the full story on that debacle.

The ATF isn’t speaking publicly about who made the 5.45×39 handgun in question, at least not yet. I’m sure the firearms community will be curious to find out who the culprit is that created such an abomination so they can receive the ridicule they so aptly deserve. Meanwhile, the waiting game continues to see if steel core 5.45×39 is shut off from future import.

UPDATE:

Copes Distributing has confirmed that the ATF has in fact shut off the import of 5.45×39 surplus ammo.  From a post they made on AR15.com at 3pm today:

Confirmed from the IMPORT BRANCH of the BATFE…Just got off the phone with them….Exact words No more Imports of 5.45×39 Ammo……. Don’t hate me as we are OUT OF STOCK ALREADY….. Just delivering the message…

MAC

MAC is an avid shooter, former MCSF Marine, NRA member, Oath Keeper and is commissioned as a Colonel by the Governor of Kentucky. Known for his videos on the Military Arms Channel, he also writes for The Bang Switch, for Shotgun News (Be Ready!) and freelances for Guns & Ammo. MAC has been a life long shooter who has an interest in all things that go "bang" but gravitates towards military type firearms.

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  • vasileos efthymiadis

    and James Yeager was spreading this crap rumor

    • Mhicaoidh

      … and he happened to be right.

      • Threshingsledge

        I advise everyone go out and purchase a copy of “Thirteen Words”, a small, extremely insightful and more importantly factual book, by Edwin Viera, Jr., on the purpose, history and the present need for the proper understanding of what the militia is, and its real purpose, including its revitalization. It is the most concise, brilliant, full explanation of what our genius founders had in mind when they created the Second Amendment, which includes both “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” as well as “a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state”. Buy/borrow the book, learn its contents and spread the word.

        The second amendment, when properly understood, will make it abundantly clear to the sensible that any politician or bureaucrat who does anything to limit firearms, ammunition and any accoutrements that would be needful for the militia of the several states to perform their three constitutionally mandated functions, are guilty of no less than TREASON.

  • Drew

    Gotta love how Yeager talks before he thinks

    • n0truscotsman

      Id hate to say it, but yeager’s advice of buying for ammo then (when it made the video), is good in hindsight.

      I hate giving him a lick of credit for anything, but in that case, he was right.

  • Skylar

    What’s with the Yeager hate? Did you read the article? This may ACTUALLY happen, so a little warning so you can go buy some steel core while you have a chance isn’t exactly a dick move on his part.

    • David Gedert

      Because he was being an asshole when people requested him to show the letter he said “I don’t take orders from you” and threatened to fight people for not believing him. Really, he does more harm to the firearms community than help by being stubborn and hot headed and generally considered a bully

      • Skylar

        He voices his own personal opinion and wants people who disagree with him to leave him alone. How is that being a bully? Did you get beat up by a lot of kids that told you to go away and leave them alone?

        • vasileos efthymiadis

          the problem is he says crap like this, provides NO evidence whatsoever other than “I’m James Yeager and I have the inside scoop”. Just like he was trying to say there was an immediate x39 shortage.

          • Skylar

            So you don’t have a dispute with what he said, just HOW he said it?

            I can understand that. He does rub some people the wrong way. But I can’t remember getting BAD information from him before, so maybe I’m a little more forgiving of his tact.

  • John C Sell Jr

    Rob Ski over at the Union had an interest legal thought on this, not sure if that is maybe why the ATF is waffling a bit and not just dropping the hammer… but I guess it is possible. Who knows, the ATF seems to be playing fast and loose with their own rules without much oversight from anyone.

  • William

    A certain genius has the brilliance to come up with a 5.45 pistol, and we turn on him like starved dogs because the government is now changing there rulings, rather then challenge this ruling or blame the organization enforcing it, we turn on one of our own. This is why we loose so many battles.

    • Riddley Walker

      But it’s still idiocy to make the pistol.

      Go fight the ATF and see how that works out. It ain’t pretty.

      • Jwedel1231

        It’s better than fighting among ourselves. Fight the real enemy, not the scapegoat.

        • Military Arms Channel

          The guy that knowingly made a gun that would get 5.45×39 surplus banned from import isn’t a hapless victim. He screwed gun owners over hardcore. Yes, the law is BS but that doesn’t negate his actions in the slightest.

          • Jwedel1231

            Fair enough. Still think we should fight the ATF on it though. Or cut their funding altogether. We were fine before them, we’ll be fine without them.

          • Rooster Cogburn

            Question is, was a pistol actually produced that could chamber it? That’s only what we’re told. Where is this pistol and its creator?

            • wysoft

              There’s a build listed on Gunbroker right now. Whether or not it’s “the guy”, well, who knows. It could’ve very well been the ATF themselves that built it, just to change their own ruling – tinfoil hat time?

              http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403279623

            • Eagle2758

              Obama had it made and paid for it with Obamabucks.

          • Brian

            He has no responsibility to anyone else, and what he does with his own private property on his own time, which does not directly violate the rights of other individuals, is his own business entirely. The blame is squarely on the ATF and govt. Quit acting like kids trying to avoid pissing off their “parents”.

            • n0truscotsman

              His actions nevertheless influenced everybody else, therefore, “he has no responsibility to anyone else” falls flat on its face when encountered with reality.

            • JoelM

              You’re right, but he’s still a damn fool for creating a gun and then instantly driving up the price of the ammo it uses.

          • Condition_One

            There have been numerous 5.45 pistols built over the years by well know AK smiths/builders. Just look up 5.45×49 pistol on gunbroker and you will see someone is selling a “RARE” 5.45 pistol. Blaming JBI as the sole party which sparked this ban is Idiotic.

          • Eagle2758

            I bet Obamabucks paid for it.

          • Strawberry Garcia

            We don’t know who that “guy” is yet, what about the unmentioned obvious player that would benit from this, the ATF itself or a false flag paper gun manufacturer.

            • Strawberry Garcia

              I guess I should’ve finished reading all the replies first someone else with the same theory.

    • Military Arms Channel

      The person that made the pistol likely knew about the OA-93 BS that got 7.62×39 banned from import yet went ahead and made the pistol anyway. Yes, that would make gun owners mad, and rightfully so. Sure, you can be an idealist and live in a utopian imaginary world where we can roll back draconian gun laws over night. But for the rest of us stuck here in reality, there’s nothing wrong with being upset with a guy that just got the importation of cheap ammo banned for doing something he knew he shouldn’t do (and likely did for profit). That’s assuming such a ban is happening of course.

      • opdsgt@gmail.com

        Mac, I for one believe it’s within the realm of possibility the designer of the pistol in question executed the build with the express intent of creating this effect as the byproduct. I’m a 25 year public servant and I don’t wear tin foil on my head.

      • ChrisJ

        I think it’s fine for us to be mad at who ever did this, but at the same time it’s important to remember who the real enemy is.

      • Airman596

        Wouldn’t you also be “an idealist and live in a utopian imaginary world” if you think businesses care about what we think when there is money to be made by, for example, selling an AK pistol variant in 5.45x39mm? For the rest of us “stuck here in reality,” we question the purpose of getting upset at businesses doing what businesses do (make a profit). Rather, it makes a lot more sense, to me at least, to focus that energy on the politicians that are ultimately responsible for this mess to begin with. While we cannot roll back draconian gun laws over night, neither can we expect people to not act greedy.

        • Cymond

          Such a stategy only works on a very small scale, for a short period of time. One of the main advantages of 5.45×39 was the price of imported ammo.
          So what good is a gun that uses cheap ammo if it destroys said ammo supply?

        • n0truscotsman

          For those of truly stuck in reality, we could care less about businesses making money. Christ, go make a million bucks selling widgets.

          When your item results in the same consequences as this event did, it goes beyond just “your” business. Considering there are AK owners that have enjoyed inexpensive ammo because of the current price and availability problem, then i would fucking-A say it is “our” business.

          When will people figure out that their actions affect others adversely?

    • SD

      JBI Armory made AK pistols in 5.45. He was banned from a forum for advertising there to prevent exactly what happened with Olympic Arms and the imports of cheap 7.62×39 .

    • Cymond

      Brilliance? Changed Ruling? The ruling is old, it happened before with 7.62×39. Read this GunBroker listing, the seller/builder was clearly forewarned, but arrogantly believed himself right and all warnings to be wrong. He was warned about the danger and his arrogance has now brought the ATF down on all 5.45×39 shooters.

      “I’d bet you’ve probably never seen one of these before! Go ahead, do a search…told you so! Most manufacturers will not build these as they erroneously believe that 5.45 pistols could get the inexpensive 7N6 Russian surplus ammunition banned from import.

      This is a very nice AK-74 Pistol chambered in 5.45X39mm built on a Bulgarian kit using an Armory USA receiver. This gun was manufactured by Horns Custom rifles out of Flagstaff, AZ (Chris no longer builds these as far as I know). This pistol sports a new coat of matte black DuraHeat high temp., a finish that is used primarily on the barrels of fully automatic weapons. DuraHeat is capable of withstanding temperatures of up 1800 degrees. Other features include a rail on the top cover that allows the use of optics and the iron sights, a bolt hold open on the safety, rail on the bottom and sides of the hand guard for accessories, newly target crowned barrel, and a tapco 30rnd magazine. This pistol also accepts standard AK-74 mags. Could make a good NFA SBR if you wanted to or just keep it as it is and be the only one on your block with one!”

      http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403279623

      • n0truscotsman

        “He was warned about the danger and his arrogance has now brought the ATF down on all 5.45×39 shooters”

        Yup and thats precisely the end result that these randian “i got mine” assholes yield. Lectures such as, “whatever two parties benefit from the exchange”, “what the market desires”, mean little in the face of picking your battles when fighting bureaucracy.

        All the more reason for the ATF to be disbanded and the laws to undergo serious reform first and foremost of course.

        Im surprised it took this long. Those douchebags from the ATF must have been itching at the trigger to pull away at banning imports of 7n6.

        • Military Arms Channel

          There’s guy out there now building a 7.62x54R pistol. He was contacted by a guy on AR15 warning him of the potential consequences and his response was, “I don’t give a shit”.

          • n0truscotsman

            A pox on his house.

            Such idiocy is deserving of what I call the “Singapore Treatment”: Caning at the bottoms of the feet.

          • Cymond

            It’s insane!
            Cheap, surplus ammo is the only reason to build a new gun in 7.6254r instead of something more common like .308 or .30-06.
            If he really wants to shoot a short-barreled 7.62x54r, then the best option would be to chop down a cheap 91/30 into an SBR and call it an Oberez pistol.

            • JoelM

              You can’t legally turn a 91/30 into a pistol, as they were all imported and sold as rifles. You can’t turn a rifle into a pistol unless it was originally configured as a pistol when it was entered into the importer or manufacturers books. I doubt any of those rifles were ever imported as a pistol.

          • Corbin

            Would you care to share his name, company name, etc? I would love to call him and let him know what i think.

            • wysoft

              I think everyone can pretty much guarantee that it’s Leonard Embody, aka “kwikrnu”

      • Sean

        I find it very hard to believe that no one else has made a 5.45 pistol. aim surplus has 5.45 sbr AR barrels that could conceivably be used to make an AR pistol in 5.45.

        Plus there is tons of M855 coming in from Denmark and Israel that could be chambered in one of the many 5.56 pistols out there.

        Thirdly, that email doesn’t look very ATF.

        • JoelM

          I’m sure one has been made, but being sold commercially as a new complete gun is what gets the ATF’s attention.

  • shaw08

    So I figure I can make a pretty good guess as to why but, does anybody know why having a pistol chambered in a russian caliber ammunition is so scary that the ammo must be banned?

    • ant1248

      Laws. Just like ballistic knifes that shoot with springs are banned because some nut though them might penetrate armor better than bullets.

  • Yap Feng Huang

    (B) The term ‘‘armor piercing ammunition’’

    means—

    (i) a projectile or projectile core which may

    be used in a handgun and which is constructed

    entirely (excluding the presence of traces of

    other substances) from one or a combination

    of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze,

    beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

    (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22

    caliber designed and intended for use in a

    handgun and whose jacket has a weight of

    more than 25 percent of the total weight of the

    projectile.

    -Unless my math has failed me, 5.45 mm is smaller than .22 cal. This definition of armor piercing ammunition is taken directly from the BATF website.

    • Gunslinger Hobbs

      5.45x39mm actually uses a .2215″ bullet, so it’s right at that bare minimum.

      • pcman312

        I’m waiting for the day when someone makes a .20 caliber rifle cartridge with a reeeeally long bullet to make it like 100 gr.

        • ant1248

          with a ton of powder so it goes like 4,000 fps

          • Jwedel1231

            Sounds like a .22-250.

            • ant1248

              From wiki: Bullet diameter .224 in
              It has got to be .219 in max

      • Sirosisofliver

        5.45mm is .214″. It’s under the .22 rule, and has a steel and lead core. Shouldn’t fall under the ban..

        • ChrisJ

          Sorry, no, it’s definitely in the .22 range.

          Also FYI, 220 Swift, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, and 223 Rem are all .224″ bullets.

          The numbers don’t have to mean anything :-).

          • Corbin

            .224 BOZ is in the .22 range and its AP like a mofo..

    • Slvrwrx

      The problem Is That’s an “OR”, not “AND”. 7N6 has steel core. It’s bullet can now be loaded into a cartridge that can be fired from a pistol. BAM AP round…

    • GuidoFL

      Common sense doesn’t count in DC these days ……………

    • Brian

      Why would the legal definition matter to them? Why would they particularly take that into consideration in deciding what to ban? All it takes is a bad case of Taco Bell with the wrong ATF busy-body, on the wrong day.

    • Ed Augenstein

      The Government isn’t known to be very good at math just look at the debt our country is in!

    • Cymond

      This may be the most useful, informative comment on this entire page.

  • Pingback: Hold on 5.45?

  • Scott Snoopy

    thanks for shedding some light on the on going ventures of gun control brought to you by the current White House occupant and his regime.

    if you all have such hate for the publisher of this site; why follow it? DO you enjoy creating stress for yourself, or is this your chance to feel empowered to spew your anger thanks to the internet?

  • ant1248

    What if I make a pistol in 50 bmg? will they ban armor piercing 50 bmg then? So if someone makes a handgun an any caliber then steel core ammo in that caliber is banned ad infinitum?

    • pcman312

      If you make a pistol in 50BMG, let me know when you go to the range to try to fire it. I want to film it. ;-)

    • Suburban

      Birdman did it like 12 years ago. ;)

  • Brian Steele

    Mac or anyone for that matter….Maybe I just don’t get it (or maybe I am the logical one, which would be my guess regarding the ATF), how does “making a pistol” that fires this ammo, make the ammo armor piercing. It is either armor piercing or not regardless of what it is fired out of.

    • pcman312

      It’s not the ammo per-say, but the fact that armor piercing ammo for a pistol is heavily restricted for import. ‘Armor piercing’ handgun ammo is restricted for import to government contracts only. IIRC, you can technically make, sell, and buy AP pistol ammo in the US, but you can’t import it. I’m not 100% sure of that last point though. My primary evidence is the fact that there are AR pistols and those pistols can shoot M855 5.56mm.

      When dealing with anything around the ATF, remember this: they are a bunch of bureaucrats that know so little about firearms, they make themselves look like idiots. Case in point: the ATF agent who confiscated a shipment of airsoft rifles (which happened to look like AR’s and other scary looking rifles), claimed they could be “readily converted” to shoot fully automatic (with omg, REAL bullets!), and then during the interview with the media showed his complete idiocy by being unable to insert a magazine into an AR15.

      • Brian Steele

        Oh I know the ATF is retarded, but I just don’t see how this ammo, according to their own determination is armor piercing……but now all of a sudden because a pistol was made to chamber this round it is? Also, how do they have the authority to ban imports or exports? Commerce is decided by Congress, not the executive branch…getting off subject. It should be challenged in court, especially since their own determinations have shown that this isn’t armor piercing. I just don’t see how this could hold up if challenged in the courts…their own determinations go against this.

        • ChrisJ

          The problem is that you are thinking rationally, where as the government and the laws they write do not. They’ve defined armor piercing in a way that has nothing to do with performance, but rather that the mere presence of steel (and a list of other ‘hard’ metals) in the core meets the definition.

        • mbsells

          No, according the LAW, 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17), 7n6 is not AP regardless if someone built a pistol or not. The ammo does not meet the definitions of the LAW for AP. In fact, doesn’t even meet any of the criteria because it’s less than .22 cal diameter, has a jacket weight under 25% of the total projectile weight, and has a bi-metal core of lead/mild steel. They can attempt to ban this ammo but it will be temporary at best due to the fact that they are violating the law.

          • bullandvodka

            Define “core”. If it is the very center, then yes 7n6 could be within their silly definition.

          • Clay Burruss

            Has that stopped this administration yet. A petty thing like laws

        • Eagle2758

          They made the pistol so they could outlaw the ammo. Obamabucks paid for it.

        • AnthonyH

          Watch SCOTUS. Awaiting decision on Abramski case. ATF making their own rules. Justices did not sound happy about it during oral arguments in Jan.

      • ant1248

        I believe the atf doesn’t count m855 as armor piercing. It was designed to penetrate stuff not armor. I read this somewhere. I don’t know if it is true but it makes sense since it is still imported to this day.

        • mbsells

          They exempted it because the core is made up of both steel and lead. Same reason why 7n6 ammo would also be non AP.

          18 USC sec. 921(a)(17).
          (B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means-

          (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a
          handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of
          traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten
          alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted
          uranium; or

          (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
          intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than
          25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

          • Jonathan

            True and accurate. Why should this regime suddenly begin to respect our Rule of Law, though?

    • Alvin York

      This is what happens when you get a bunch of bureaucrats and Politicians who don’t know anything about guns trying to regulate and define what makes a gun what.

      • Mitch Summers

        It is what you get when you get politicians using whatever stupid means they have to work around the 2nd Amendment and other laws that actually exist to preserve our freedoms rather than restrict them. It is no different than using things like muzzle devices and pistol grips as an excuse to say a firearm is more dangerous. Regardless of who they are the anti-gun politicians always hit the brick wall of the fact that the 2nd Amendment exists. They aren’t as dumb as we think…they are fighting a war of attrition using every loophole and workaround they can to make it more expensive and difficult for manufactures and suppliers to constantly adapt to new requirements.

        • SHOTGUN285

          you are absolutely right. They can’t defeat the 2nd Amendment head on, so they choose the “death by 1,000 cuts” approach, whittling it away, little by little, and in the process turning law abiding citizens into “criminals” for violating some arcane code that they themselves seem privy to. That’s also how they plan to disarm us. Not by mass gun confiscations, they know that would lead to an armed rebellion that would make the revolutionary war and American civil war pale in comparison. One by one they turn us into criminals and take our guns, provoke us, prod us, hoping we lash out so they can crush us and then point the finger and say “oooh looky, we took guns away from some kook and made the world safer”. That is how they operate. The BATFE needs to be eliminated, period.

          • n0truscotsman

            Thats how everything has been in human civilization since the Classical Age of Rome, and before then, Greece: Incrementalism.

            They wonder why us gun owners are now more uncomprimising than ever? well gee, maybe its because we were pushed around with the 7.62×39 chinese ban, the FOPA, CGA, etc.

            “The BATFE needs to be eliminated, period.”
            There is NOTHING they do that cannot be taken care of by US Customs, the FBI, and state police forces to begin with.

            • SHOTGUN285

              yes, they came into being simply to collect an excise tax, and now they are dictating the 2nd amendment. time for them to go

      • n0truscotsman

        Yes and these regulations do nothing to mitigate a problem or enhance the safety of society. Nothing.

        Its merely pissing in the wind while infringing upon rights.

    • Military Arms Channel

      It makes no sense, but most gun laws don’t. What’s moronic about the law is that most any centerfire rifle ammo fired from a stockless rifle (call it a pistol if you like) will punch through 2A body armor. It’s a meaningless law that needs to be scuttled… but unfortunately it’s not very high on the list of things to do for most gun rights groups.

      • Brian Steele

        So would a lot of pistol cartridges to be fair on 2A. I keep hearing this “law” from the ATF about armor piercing. Is it actually a law or is it an ATF policy/ rule because I cannot seem to find the actual law stating anything about this. Anyone know the name or number of the law? There is a big difference between this being actual law verse it being a ATF rule or policy. If this was challenged I think it would fall like in the case where the ATF ruled a certain muzzle break was a suppressor. The judge findings actually ripped the ATF for not having a scientific testing to determine the category of components instead of using a list of things to determine it was a suppressor even though it did not lower noise, but actually increased the noise level. The case was thrown out. (can’t remember the case name off hand).

        • RobGoetzSr

          It is also ATF’s way to re-define what “Armor” is and likewise, what can be considered “Armor Piercing.”

        • Wayne Gilmore

          Maybe people should have been paying attention when Congress passed the cop killer ammo law banning Teflon.
          http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-29/news/mn-14591_1_armor-piercing-bullets

        • http://batman-news.com Concerned2000

          There is an actual law, passed by congress, that prohibits certain metals in the construction of a “pistol” bullet. It may specify non expanding, I’m not certain on that. I do know that steel, bronze and tungsten are among those listed.

          The BATFE “interpretation” is what defines a pistol bullet as such. They ruled that if there is a handgun (maybe only a repeating handgun?) chambered in it, that cartridge is forever more a pistol cartridge. That’s how we got screwed with 7.62×39 AND 7.62×51 (.308). For some reason, they exempted 5.56×45.

          • Myles M. Anhalt

            30-06 was also exempted because of the collecting aspect of it. Probably the CMP saved us.

      • RobGoetzSr

        It may not make sense, but it is their means to an end. “The total subjugation of the American People.”

      • Dr. Strangelove

        It makes sense from the standpoint that because they can’t take away our guns in one fell swoop, they will chip away at our rights bit by bit until they achieve their ultimate goal of civilian disarmament.

    • Lindall Johnson

      Rifle armor peircing ammo isnt illegal. But ap ammo in pistol calibers is. Just making the pistol in tgat caliber doesnt change the ammo, but the classification of it.

      • McThag

        The problem is that the law doesn’t say that. The law says “designed and intended for use in a handgun”. This ammo is not designed and intended for handguns, it’s rifle ammo.

        I think we’d be far better served with a ruling that made any handgun firing rifle ammo an NFA item.

        • JoelM

          What’s “rifle ammo” though? Many rounds are on the fence, and many were developed simultaneously in both rifles and pistols. Not to mention, the NFA shouldn’t exist, we certainly don’t need to be adding any MORE things to it.

        • kalashnikev

          No, it says, “may be used in a handgun”

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

    • 1TrueAmericanPatriot@gmail.com

      PULEEEZ!
      You are wanting to apply logic to the ATF which is a part of the Odamdam administration lead by none other than Barack Hussein Obama, or Barry Soetoro or whatever his real name is as no one knows for sure now do we. We know the man is mentally deficient in some areas and that there can be little if any logic applied to the public thinking displayed by he and his comrades. IF you look behind the scenes for the truth, you will find it and we know that Obama hates guns. It has never, ever to our knowledge been publically displayed as to the truth of his thinking but we all know that he wants guns banned with “guns” being in the end, anything that releases a projectile at high speed which normally most would call a firearm. In truth, we believe, there does exist, in his thinking, a very good reason for banning all firearms from the hands of citizens, a group otherwise known as: “WE THE PEOPLE” as the intent of the liberal, PROGRESSIVE, communist/ Marxist, Democrat, seeking to destroy America, disarm America, and place her economically to the equivalent of a third world country, or worse is to remove or destroy or replace the greatest of all national documents known as the Constitution of the United States of America
      which guarantees to all individuals who are citizens of this wonderful country all of the rights, freedoms and liberties we have for in the mind of the liberals they want to completely control all individuals. They can replace the Constitution if they have a majority in the House and Senate and are able to convince enough Americans probably using some type of utterances such as it was written over 230 years ago and therefore is not relevant to America any longer. One guarantee is this: IF, they are able to throw out our Constitution, you can bet the bank that all of the rights guaranteed to citizens will be gone, including the first amendment which provides for freedom of speech as well as the famous and citizen loved 2nd amendment and all of the rest of them.

      We believe it is time for Odamdam, you know exactly who we mean by that, to hit the road and go back to Kenya, his true home without all of the funds he has most likely stolen from our country. This can be accomplished legally by all of us coming together and sending out emails to everyone we know advocating the impeachment of Obama by all of us contacting our three reps in congress and demanding his immediately impeachment on the grounds of failure to upon his oath of office, ignoring the Constitution on multiple occasions as well as acts
      of treason and acts of espionage which are included in all of his un-American activities evidenced by his destruction of the American economy accomplished by excessive national debt, destruction of the U.S. military thereby placing our country in a position of being unable to defend itself should his destruction of the military be allowed to continue. Relative to Benghazi, ask yourself, how did the Muslim Brotherhood just happen to know to attack our consulate on the only day when the Ambassador was scheduled to visit for a single night
      stay? Answer: It so happens there are six White House senior advisors who are members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ask yourself:
      Who has the authority to tell the U.S. Military to stand down from
      defending American property in a foreign country? Need we say more? Further, when contacting our congressional reps, it is VITAL we tell our reps these are our intent to remove him from office and if our current representatives do not abide by our wishes, we shall replace them at the earliest opportunity with individuals who understand the concept of representation. There is nothing that shakes a member of the House or the Senate than threatening to vote them from office for it would immediately end their ability to accumulate power and wealth while in office. Ask yourself: How does one who is a member of the U.S. Congress accumulate wealth, legally, while in office? IF anyone knows the answer to that question, please let us know for we know of no legal way outside of their legal wages. No matter which political party you are
      associated with, there are many things that are obvious to most and should be recognized by all about Odamdam and in all honesty if you are a red-blooded American citizen who loves your country, you know this man is the worse thing that has ever happened to America, that he HATES America and he HATES American citizens! He must go, BUT, it must be done legally for any other action only glorifies him and his legacy. He has real mental issues that should have been addressed a long time ago that prevent him from being a real president and
      influence his thinking in everything he addresses. Let’s work together and get him out of office and for God’s sake as well as the sake of America and all of us who are citizens, lets work to make sure Hillary “What Difference Does It Make” Clinton is NEVER elected President of the United States of America. Good luck and God Bless you all!

  • GuidoFL

    7N6 is not steel core it’s lead core. But given the current administration in DC ?????

    • Military Arms Channel

      Not true, 7N6 does have a steel core.

      • GuidoFL

        My understanding from the cut in half sections I’ve seen is the core is lead. Then I hear there is a small steel “wire” inside ? I blame this whole mess on the fools that just had to make a certain type of small weapon knowing what happened with the 7.62 mess. Perhaps these “fools” had a hidden agenda ???

  • Texas-Roll-Over

    MAC,

    Thanks for the report. If you would please be so kind as to let us know who the a$$hat was that did this so we can get the pitchforks out?

    In all actuality I would bet that the ATF has pressure from the top to cease any imports of Russian goods. This one just happens to be surplus ammunition and they saw this as an opportunity.

    I would also be careful about labeling all the people at the ATF as idiots that know nothing about the firearm industry. Many of them are very in tune with guns, the industry. and keep a very watchful eye on the markets. They’re also a government entity with a boss that isn’t too happy with the Russians right now.

    • Military Arms Channel

      I didn’t call anyone at the ATF an “idiot”, or any other name. The person I said was a “dolt” was the guy who made the handgun in 5.45×39. There’s a reason no one in the industry would make such a thing before, and this is the reason.

      I’m not convinced a ban is in place at this point either. All I know is that at least one form 6 for 5.45×39 imports has been on hold with the ATF for quite a while now and this email was sent directly to that importer from the ATF.

      • Mathieu Nouquet

        Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. :-)

      • Texas-Roll-Over

        I apologize MAC, that comment wasn’t directed you. I should have made another post.

        It is however directed at people on the internet that attribute anyone in the service of the government as morons.

  • Pingback: Import Ban on 7N6 5.45×39 | Fleeting Survival

  • MaxEffectUSA
    • MattW

      Not true. I believe MAC even helped dispel this.

      • MaxEffectUSA

        Well Matt, we’ll see. I don’t use it, just came across the article

    • Military Arms Channel

      It’s not true. I’m since confirmed that as of this writing there is no ammo export or import ban on Russian ammo (outside of the new ruling on 5.45×39).

  • blehtastic

    But XM855 is legal then because why? Is this just one of those wildly inconsistent “shoulder thingy that goes up” legal messes? You can’t import it, but you can make and sell it here?

    Maybe Wolf should just open an assembly plant here and import all the components rather than finished ammo.

    • Amschel Leonid Bauer

      No expect, but I might venture because it is domestic production? …or perhaps the ATF doesn’t know yet…

    • Military Arms Channel

      Most gun laws make little to no sense. Yes, you can produce some things domestically that you can’t import.

      Take AK’s for example. You can make them with all of the naughty parts here in the US without issue. But if you try to import an AK in it’s original form into the US, you can’t. It has to come into the country as some goofy sporter rifle that is converted back into its original configuration using US made parts.

      • blehtastic

        And if this was due to Nationalistic, Militia preserving sentiment we could all agree with, and celebrate these laws, but when’s the last time Jim Fuller was awarded the 922r medal for preservation and dissemination of domestic firearms production and gunsmithing knowledge.

  • Amschel Leonid Bauer

    What’s the law which outlaws steel core armor piercing ammunition for handguns, and how do we repeal it?

    • MattW

      the Gun Control Act of 1968 is the ultimate culprit. You can find the language of what constitutes “armor piercing ammo” looking up 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B)

  • Gustav the Gunsmith

    Letter way too short
    Not the usual font
    Not the usual color
    Not the usual format

    It’s fake folks.
    Don’t go ruining the market

    • Military Arms Channel

      It’s an email, not a letter. That’s why I called the person I got it from who is the importer and spoke to them voice and confirmed this an email they personally got from the ATF. I’ve since been contacted by an exporter that confirmed delays on their end waiting on paperwork that’s well past due.

  • Gustav the Gunsmith

    Oh and on top of it, the round has to be at least .22 caliber which the 5.45 is not.

    • MattW

      Unfortunately they are much more likely to say the number 5.45 is bigger than the number .22 so you are wrong. God forbid they break out the calipers and measure the damn thing.

      • Zach

        If you did break out the calipers and measure it you would find out that it is in fact .221 bullets being used .

  • Pingback: Import Ban on 7N6 5.45×39 - Knesek Guns, Inc.

  • Tyler Sea

    7N6 doesn’t even fucking meet the definition of armor piercing ammo. It has a steel AND lead core. Lead is not one of the listed metals in the definition.

  • Bigred2989

    How the hell does rifle ammo become pistol ammo just because someone made an AK with a short barrel and no stock? All they made was a rifle with no stock. What’s next? Some malicious gun grabber makes a 7.62x54R pistol by making Mosin Nagant receivers from scratch and making Obrezes out of them?

    • Military Arms Channel

      Don’t give them any ideas… some clown will make one. :)

      • Bigred2989

        Maybe you should lobby for a bill to end these kind of shenanigans in the first place.

        • Military Arms Channel

          I am far more politically active than you apparently know. All of us should do everything we can to fight these laws. I live and breath this stuff… but I’ve been on my way to a protest at our state capital and drove by the Indy 1500 gun show. I saw hundreds of people waiting to get in the doors to take part in panic buying vs. going to the state capital and actually fighting the law(s) being proposed. We all could do more than we currently do.

          • Mathieu Nouquet

            I don’t doubt that, but your message in this post does not reflect this statement.

            We had a similar situation in Canada. A retailer requested some highlight from the RCMP on a specific rifle (whether or not the Swiss Classic Green receiver was a SA conversion of a FA SIG550 or an original SA design). Ultimately, this lead to the RCMP to prohibit Swiss Classic Green. There has been a lot of heinous bashing on that specific retailer, while the true enemy is the RCMP and its ability to arbitrarily prohibit firearms.

            • Military Arms Channel

              This post isn’t about fighting idiotic laws, this post is about a potential import ban.

              What happened in Canada is BS too. I’m not aware of the details around how or why the RCMP is snatching your rifles up. It sounds to me like someone unknowingly kicked the hornets nest in your case and likely didn’t know what they were doing would cause the RCMP to start a gun grab.

              In this case that’s probably not the case and the someone made the pistol knowing full well what the outcome might be, and worse did it for profit and not to make a political statement.

              Knowingly doing something that ultimately affects hundreds of thousands of other people isn’t cool, regardless if the law is just or not.

        • MattW

          MAC wrote an article that doesn’t call for fire and brimstone on the ATF – he must be anti-gun and hate the 2nd Amendment!! #sarcasm #eyeroll

          I’m betting MAC has done more for our rights than the majority of people (myself included) commenting on this blog.

      • Mathieu Nouquet

        Interesting to see how you fight for the 2nd amendment, as long as it suits your interest…

        • Military Arms Channel

          That makes absolutely no sense.

          • Mathieu Nouquet

            My point is that you have a subjective, biased, point of view. You want cheap ammo at the cost of preventing other to build firearm as they wish. It’s not your right to shoot for cheap that is protected, it is the freedom of the People to own and bear arms.

            Fight the decision, fight the law as it is now, but don’t bash on gunmakers. It would seem that we are our own enemy once more.

            • Military Arms Channel

              I personally don’t care if cheap 5.45×39 comes in the country or not because I stopped using it last year. It has nothing to do with me personally, but I know a lot of very angry people right now who are worried that imports just got shut off on the ammo they use.

              We both agree the law is BS.

            • Mathieu Nouquet

              I agree the law is BS, but well, that’s life. A lot of people don’t like change.

              I will give you another related recent example in Canada: we used to import cheap ammo from China, but it would seem the supply stopped because the shipping company, Cosco (China Ocean Shipping (Group) Company), now refuses to handle ammunition.

              Well, no more cheap crate of non-corrosive, brass cased 5.56x45mm to feed our Type-97 :-(

            • Military Arms Channel

              One of our Presidents decided one day to ban Chinese imports… no more cheap AK’s, SKS’s, or any of the other cool and affordable guns that the Chinese have developed since the ban will ever see US shores. I’ve seen some pretty interesting Chinese firearms on the Canadian market and it makes me wish we could get our import ban lifted… but sadly once such things are imposed they’re rarely undone.

            • Mathieu Nouquet

              NO ! Please, NO ! I beg you ! Please, could you leave us a couple of cheap firearm to enjoy ? You are already hoarding the vast majority of the fun ! ;-)

            • Joe Weber

              So after years of touting the AK74 as your “go to” rifle, you have abandoned it?

            • Military Arms Channel

              I have abandon 7N6.

            • Joe Weber

              Any particular reason why?

            • Military Arms Channel

              The price was going up and up, so I decided to go with commercial ammo. At one point it was so dirt cheap that it was hard to pass up. That’s not the case anymore. That, and I’m moving to 5.56mm AK’s for primary use. I know, strange, but there’s a method to my madness.

            • Joe Weber

              I have a pair of arsenal SLR-106fr. But a Definitive Arms 5.56mm AK is on my to purchase list.

            • n0truscotsman

              I havent bought new 5.45 in years, back when it was less than half of what it was before.

              I solved the problem a long time ago by just owning ARs in addition to my AKs :P

  • Tyler Cochiloko Carlson

    The ATF is entirely out of control. The very agency itself should be abolished, it’s not constitutional in the first place.

  • Qwer

    Mother f**ker.

  • The Outsider

    After having read this it’s business as usual. The article mentions the ban because someone has made a pistol in this chambering. That is red tape, loose language ways for the FEDS to ban our access to ammo.
    There’s a reference by the writer that makes it sound like some ” dummy” caused this by making a pistol in this chambering therefore causing the BATFE to go after it like they did when Olympic made an AR pistol in7.62×39. I believe that theory is as bad as the ban itself. The idea that we cannot build things in fear of the FEDS banning it or something else is totally backward. This is the same group of people running guns into Mexico and lying about it.
    Armor piercing ammo ban is a joke and we know a lot of you know this. The guilty party here is the BATFE and everyone needs to remember that and not attacking someone for being innovative. Let’s face the enemy not each other.

    • Military Arms Channel

      There’s nothing innovative about making a 5.45×39 handgun. There’s a reason no one has made one up until this point… it’s because they didn’t want to be “that guy” who got imports banned. Well, if this is true, then “that guy” just stepped forward and screwed us out of cheap 5.45×39.

      Is the law unjust? Of course, but it’s currently the law. That we must deal with on its own. However, flaunting the law and doing something that screws others over just for the sake of making a quick buck is hardly something to be commended.

  • mbsells

    5.45 is less than .22 cal. It is not by definition an armor piercing round.

    • Cymond

      The law says ‘a bullet with a steel core OR a bullet more than 22 cal with a heavy jacket’

      (B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
      (i)a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
      (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

  • dan

    Google search reports that there is a desiree that works in said department. WTF?

  • HerkyBird596

    The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (and really big fires), under the Obama administration, is going to do everything they can get away with to restrict firearms ownership. I will be surprised if the importation of anything firearms related will exist after Obama’s second term. The President does not need Congress to ban imports and there is little, if anything, we can do about it. Thus, we are screwed. Remember who to vote for in 2016.

    • HerkyBird596

      Lets keep in mind the precedent to ban the import of certain firearms was set by George H.W. Bush, a Republican President, so there is little in the way of stopping Obama from following in Bush’s footsteps and write an executive order to ban imports of firearms and ammo.

      • cbunix23

        The was an import ban in 1958 (not a typo) which kept many WWII military surplus weapons from being imported into the US. That law was lobbied for by US firearms manufacturers. Go figure.

  • mbsells

    Has anyone actually confirmed this with BATFE and in addition questioned the legitimacy of this decision given that A.) 5.45 < .22 cal and B.) 5.45 core is made up of both mild steel and lead? Thereby not even classified as AP according to their own definitions. Someone needs to contact them directly and make sure they get the real scoop on this.

    • Brian

      Why would the letter of the law stop them? Why would they particularly take that into consideration in deciding what to ban? All it takes is a bad case of Taco Bell with the wrong ATF busy-body, on the wrong day.

  • Brian

    Notice how it’s Olympic Arms’ fault for giving consumers more choice, because they upset the ATF. It’s apparently never the ATF’s fault.

    Fuck that mentality that treats us all like kids trying to avoid pissing off our “parents”.

    • Military Arms Channel

      It’s not even really the ATF’s fault, it’s the politicians that pass these open ended laws giving agencies like the ATF carte blanche authority to make such changes without oversight. Why are you giving a pass to the politicians that enact these laws?

      Yes, Olympic Arms bears the responsibility of their actions. They were warned by many credible people that what they were about to do, FOR PROFIT, would likely get 7.62×39 ammo banned from import. Olympic Arms actions were driven by a greed, not to make a political statement or to “stick it to the man”. They wanted to be the only people offering such a firearm on the market and to capitalize on it, regardless of the consequences. They took it upon themselves to make a decision that affected hundreds of thousands of other people. Who were they to make that decision? They soon came to regret that decision and years later wished they hadn’t.

      Just because Olympic Arms bears the responsibility of their actions doesn’t mean the ATF or the politicians enabling them are automatically right or without blame themselves. No one here would disagree that the laws are ridiculous and would rather have them over turned, but the reality is we’re currently living under them and doing things to screw other people over to earn a buck isn’t right either.

      • Brian

        Maybe the “greed” and “profit” schtick works with the Occupy Wall Street crowd, but not me. Their motivations for what they did with their own property that they acquired through voluntary exchange with others should not be a concern to anyone else, so long as they are not violating anyone else’s rights.

        Obviously when I was referring to the ATF for blame, I was also including those who grant them power over our lives. They receive 100% of the blame.

        Olympic Arms simply brought to light how much the govt can and will interfere in our private affairs. Thank them for bring attention to this problem.

        • Leonard Embody

          Olympic Arms did nothing wrong. It is the BATFE and politicians who share the blame.

        • n0truscotsman

          “Maybe the “greed” and “profit” schtick works with the Occupy Wall Street crowd, but not me. Their motivations for what they did with their own property that they acquired through voluntary exchange with others should not be a concern to anyone else, so long as they are not violating anyone else’s rights.”

          Well they ARE a fucking concern to everybody else because look what happened…

          Besides the point of blaming the politicians and the ATF (which is obvious), how about the “gray area” pushers in the gun world take some responsibility for their actions?

          Objectivism works only so far.

        • Cymond

          The law was written, no matter how unjust, it is still the law. Olympic knew damn well what they were doing. They did something that they KNEW would get cheap 7.62 ammo banned from import, yet we’re supposed to give them a pass?

  • CalebMcF

    Please stop spreading this fear mongering bs. You’re better than that MAC. 5.45 is going to end up like .22lr. Everyone panics, then it’s all gone from store shelves. The only way to buy it is from scalpers that live next door or across town.

    • Leonard Embody

      Steel core surplus 5.45×39 will end up like 7.62×39 steel core, expensive $0.75 – $1.00/round in a couple of years.

      • Eagle2758

        That’s the Commie plan.

        • Leonard Embody

          It is the plan of the US Congress and the BATFE

    • Military Arms Channel

      The sad part is this isn’t fear mongering, it’s real. I don’t post speculation and unsubstantiated BS. I verify sources and do the leg work. It’s been confirmed by multiple sources, the ATF has stopped approving form 6′s and no more 7N6 is coming in. That’s not to say it won’t get challenged in court, and I hope it does, but as of now it’s gone.

  • Leonard Embody

    The bullet size doesn’t matter to the ATF. If they choose to ban ammo from import it will be banned. This has been in the works for years, people should have prepared in advance. Instead of blaming Yeager you people should blame the ATF, politicians, and your own ineptness.

    • mbsells

      Yes it does matter according the LAW. As well as the jacket weight and the core materials which for 5.45 surplus- is bi-metal. 7n6 does not meet ANY of the AP standards according to the law.

      • Leonard Embody

        The GCA does not require the ATF collect as much information as they do on the 4473, yet the ATF continues to collect the info. The ATF does as they choose.

        • mbsells

          GO FUCK YOURSELF Leonard.

          • Leonard Embody

            So, you think the BATFE collects less data than allowed?

            • mbsells

              So you think you are fucking cute coming here to brag because it was you after all and JBI Armory that both built pistols in 5.45×39. Kwikrnu Arms.

            • Leonard Embody

              I have never been a licensed manufacturer. I did make a couple 5.45×39 pistols for personal use.
              If I had been a manufacturer it is no secret that my sole business plan would be to purchase as much 5.45×39 steel core surplus I could possibly afford, then manufacture a few 5.45×39 pistols and send them to the BATFE so they could examine them before sale. LOL
              Easily I could double my investment overnight. Someone beat me to it. Unfortunately I have no 5.45×39, nor a 5.45×39 pistol. :(

            • n0truscotsman

              Bahahahahaha!!!

              SURE!

              /rolls eyes

    • n0truscotsman

      Yup.

      I bought tens of thousands of rounds of 5.45 over the past decade, abiding by the rule of “stack deep while its cheap”.

      If so many are slacking on ammunition, what does that say about the rest of their equipment?

      • Leonard Embody

        Most don’t have food to last more than a few days much less ammo in any real quantity. They are too busy going out and having fun.

  • bullandvodka

    The word on the forums is that this is a done deal. ATF says no more imports of 7N6. Now, lets take a moment to lament the end of an era and then let’s turn this mob and figure out who marketed this 5.45 handgun!

    • mbsells

      Kwiknru Arms and JBI Armory built pistols in 5.45×39. Now, the thing is, even despite this 7n6 does not meet the letter of the law for AP rounds. There are three main criteria for AP ammo; has to be .22 cal or larger, which 7n6 is not. Must have a solid single metal core which 7n6 does not given it’s both lead and mild steel. Finally, the jacket weight has to be at least 25% of the total weight of the projectile. 7n6 does not meet any of that criteria as the law is written. Finally, 7n6 was never designed as an actual AP round. 7n10 and 7n22 are true AP rounds, not 7n6- which is the whole reason that is the only ammo we have imported so far. It’s basically ball ammo and does not perform as an AP round.

  • fizzer

    Found this on GB…”This is a very nice AK-74 Pistol chambered in 5.45X39mm built on a Bulgarian kit using an Armory USA receiver. This gun was manufactured by Horns Custom rifles out of Flagstaff, AZ.”

    The paragraph right before it….”Most manufacturers will not build these as they erroneously believe that 5.45 pistols could get the inexpensive 7N6 Russian surplus ammunition banned from import.”

    • mbsells

      It doesn’t matter if someone built a pistol in 5.45. You can buy an AR pistol and still they import M855 which is EXEMPT as an AP round because it has both steel and lead in the core, not just one metal. 7n6 has also both steel and lead in the core and is even smaller than .22 caliber. BATFE is just blocking this for no reason even if they decide to go around the law. This would get smacked down in a court of law the second some importer decides to go after them. The law defines what AP ammo is and 7n6 does not meet the criteria of the law.

  • Delta001

    JIB Armory makes a 5.45 pistol

  • Pingback: 5.45x39; Days of Cheap Surplus Are Over? - M14 Forum

  • Pingback: is this for real?

  • Rooster Cogburn

    If anyone actually possesses 5.45×39 SC we should have a test on some AR500 and see how effective it really is, and post it on youtube please ;)

  • BPCoop19

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t Robinson Arms made a pistol in 5.45 for several years?

  • anon.

    Jack Booted THUGS…too busy giving machine guns to Mexican cartels to do anything useful!

  • Pingback: Looks like 5.45 is about to get a lot more expensive.

  • myoplex

    So Mac, if you’ve moved away from your AK-74 as your go to rifles is your new go-to rifle you AK chambered in 5.56 with the definitive arms AR mag conversion?

  • Pingback: Breaking News: Obama Admin. Bans Ammunition Imports! | Conservative Daily

  • Pingback: BREAKING NEWS! OBAMA BANS AMMUNITION IMPORTS! | Americas Freedom Fighters

  • Jason Priestley

    This is likely related to the Demonrat Politicians doing Russian arms sales to Islamic jihadist monkey’s in California. I wouldn’t think too much of it beyond that.

    And there’s that whole Russian invasion of Europe thing.

    Order ammo from another Country. It’s not a good time for Russia/US relations right now.

  • Pingback: Milsurp 5.45 bites the dust. Thanks ATF!

  • Pingback: Montana ammo casing processor raid recalls warnings of anti-gun agenda at OSHA | California news

  • Paul Wang

    i have this feeling they ban it not because of the pistol but its because of crimeria how long this ban is going to be???

  • Jesse Johnson

    I actually saw a Youtube video a couple weeks ago where a guy took one of those New Frontier Armory Extar EXP AR pistols and rebarreled it for 5.45. Then there is this I just saw posted to Facebook not sure if I should even repost it here but its already out there on Gunbroker. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403279623

  • Eagle2758

    It’s all in the Commie plan.

  • Pingback: 5.45x39mm Steel Core Ammunition Now Banned from Import into the US - Modern Arms Gun News, Reviews, and Politics

  • Robert Storms

    Why then does ATF allow M855/ss109 type ammo to be imported? This is totally arbitrary..

    • Google

      It’s made domestically

      • Robert Storms

        Its also imported or has been from Korea(PMC), Serbia(PPU), Romania, Denmark, Austria, Canada, etc…

  • Pingback: ATF stopping imports of steel core 5.45x39 7n6 as armor piercing - Ruger Forum

  • Catsnguns

    The m855 round as well as the impressive .30-06 cal. AP round are exempt from the import ban because the BATFE recognizes them as having a “sporting purpose” use ie dedicated target shooting. I believe it is well established that the m855 was developed to dramatically improve the performance in accuracy of the m193 leading to the m16a2/ar15a2 series. During WWII and later the truly impressive .30-06 AP round was noted by GIs to be far more accurate and capable than standard ball. in the years immediately after WWII when the various services started match shooting again before specialized lots of dedicated match was available the .30-06 AP was widely used in matches and remains popular especially lots of unloaded or pulled bullets for that purpose today. Some years back there was a guy at the National Matches with a rebuilt so called “ultra match” m1 and AP loaded ammo that really turned heads in performance. Hope this helps with some of the questions and I really enjoy reading “theBangswitch”.

  • Catsnguns

    Let me correct and say the m855 round and AP .30-06 are exempt from both the import and domestic manufacture ban because they are seen to have a legitimate use in target shooting per the rules of the AP handgun ammo ban.
    Also FWIW I believe OA actually built the OA-93 pistol in response to a LEO request for a dynamic entry pistol or some such as several agencies were encountering armored doors or blocking positions on drug houses. I believe they were told as long as it was a LEO only item there would be no ammo ban by the powers that be but when they sent out seven samples to various gun writers and LEOs for evaluation someone changed their minds. In any case I believe as several have noted they were warned not to do it by numerous people.

  • Paul Henning

    Thats not how ATF letters are formatted. while I wouldn’t normally put it past them to have grammatical errors in letters this one has them so it seems more than a little suspect to me.

    That’s not a signature off an FTB examiner or import branch employee.

    So two importers are saying 5.45 is drying up and offer a fake letter to support their claim? sounds like some ammo distributors trying to drum up business with phony documents. I can see why the person who Dr this letter would want to remain anonymous, he doesn’t want to be boycotted once he’s found out.

    I’m calling shenanigans on this.

    • Military Arms Channel

      Why don’t you give the ATF a buzz on Monday and report back what they tell you. You’re probably not going to like what they tell you… that or you’ll report back the ATF agent on the phone is in on the “shenanigans” with Copes and AIM Surplus. :) I wish you were right, but unfortunately you’re wrong.

  • William McBride

    Why ban the ammunition, and just ban the pistol in this caliber. Because if steel core is the main reason? You can expect for 7.62×39 and 7.62x54r to be next on the list! They can’t get your guns so they just ban all the ammunition. Time to take action America!

  • Corbin

    I am just about fed up with the feds stupid bullshit laws. It does not make sense. The same round fired from a 16in barrel that might punch through a plate, has less of a chance if fired from a pistol to pierce the same vest.
    My 660gr API rounds are perfectly legal, and they will surely go through any vest… idiotic laws by idiots that are so out of touch with reality it borders on insanity. Makes me crazy thats for sure.

  • Corbin

    I am going to start checking the bangswitch on a daily basis,. i saw a video from mrgunsandgear about the 7n6 ammo at mightnight right before bed and just finished finding some and buying it online. I only bought 6 spam cans because i was worried it might not be a genuine ban.. now that i think it is, i will order 6 more…

    • n0truscotsman

      six must be a magical number.

      I know a doctor that bought 6 cans (3x 2160 crates) of 5.45 after first hearing of the word “sanctions” against russia. he’s sitting pretty now.

      It feels good to teach others to do the same.

      Realistically and logically speaking, if you purchased relatively large quantities, they should be able to hold you out long enough for prices to settle down and/or until that ammunition comes back. That is what happened in 94 with my 7.62×39.

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  • joninva

    IMHO, although its fairly easy to blame the maker of the 5.45×39 pistol as being responsible for the banning of the importation of the 7N6 surplus, its really on the government, specifically those at BATFE who use that as the excuse to ban the importation of the military surplus ammo under their ridiculous rules. If you want to be angry about this, direct your anger at these morons and those people who have been elected to office that support this nonsense. Luckily, for anyone who purchased a 5.45×39 chambered rifle because the ammo was cheap and plentiful, you can still purchase the commercially produced ammo, just not as cheap.

    • Scott

      Except only TWO countries produce commercial 5.45 ammo. Russia and the Ukraine, the two countries that are about to go to war with each other!!!!

      • joninva

        Lets hope they don’t and they can continue to export to the U.S.

  • RobGoetzSr

    Why is it that I sense that our government is about to turn its military reources on the American People? Closing of Lead Mines, Bullet Manufacturers, Brass Casing Manufacturers. The shredding of Surplus Brass and selling it to China for less than it’s scrap worth? The EPA shutting down another Ammunition Manufacturer for supposed “Environmental Issues?” http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/03/usa-brass-ammunition-company-raided-obamas-epa-alleges-environmental-violations/#Y6vYKiXDOWz5xyIk.99

  • peter

    Why would anyone block out the phone numbers in the letter, there’s no reason to do so they are a public agency, and the fact they cut off the letterhead. Scam…and I want to know how Copes got ahold of anyone on a Saturday afternoon at the import division. And if they did in fact speak to someone what specifically was asked? If you ask if AP is banned the response would be yes. If you asked specifically about Russian surplus 7n6 the answer would have to be a big NO as 7n6 does not fall under the BATFE definition for AP ammunition. Go read the definition. The definition clearly states that the bullet in question has to be of solid steel core or a combination of other hard metals listed in the definition. The core in 7n6 is a mixture of steel and lead. Lead obviously is not a disqualifying metal in the definition. 7n6 is no more an armor piercing round than green tipped 855 5.56 and can be easily proven. Feel sorry for the panic buyers paying through the nose for this stuff when everything gets straightened out and the next shipment arrives. Remember those who gouged over rumors.

    • Military Arms Channel

      What 5.45×39 do you think they’re talking about?

  • peter

    Why would anyone block out the phone numbers in the letter, there’s no reason to do so they are a public agency, and the fact they cut off the letterhead. Scam…and I want to know how Copes got ahold of anyone on a Saturday afternoon at the import division. And if they did in fact speak to someone what specifically was asked? If you ask if AP is banned the response would be yes. If you asked specifically about Russian surplus 7n6 the answer would have to be a big NO as 7n6 does not fall under the BATFE definition for AP ammunition. Go read the definition. The definition clearly states that the bullet in question has to be of solid steel core or a combination of other hard metals listed in the definition. The core in 7n6 is a mixture of steel and lead. Lead obviously is not a disqualifying metal in the definition. 7n6 is no more an armor piercing round than green tipped 855 5.56 and can be easily proven. Feel sorry for the panic buyers paying through the nose for this stuff when everything gets straightened out and the next shipment arrives. Remember those who gouged over rumors. Total bullshxt with no specifics.

    • Military Arms Channel

      I blurred the numbers after hundreds of people started calling the ATF. The numbers included Desiree’s cell number. The original image is still out in Cyberspace. You can Google Desiree and find her contact info, so why not do so and give her a call?

      Copes didn’t call them on a Saturday.

      The ATF routinely defies the law and does things it shouldn’t. They just got their rear ends handed to them by a Federal court last week for such Tomfoolery.

      The import ban is real, for now. It may get sorted out through the courts if someone actually takes them to court. Meanwhile, 7N6 is not coming in the country. Instead of spreading baseless speculation and spinning wild conspiracy theories about Copes, AIM and everyone else, you can call up the ATF and confirm it for yourself.

  • Isaac Abed-rabo

    There’s got to be some kind of appeals process or legal channels we can go through to fix this. This is purely political; 7n6 does not even meet the ATF requirements for “Armor piercing”. This is just another over-reach by this administration to trample on the second amendment. If we challenge them with their own laws, maybe they’ll back down? I doubt it though…

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  • 545x39sky

    Call and write your federal reps in DC. Tell them to pressure the BATFE to reverse its import ban on Russian surplus 5.45x39mm ammo. That’s “what we can do about it”!

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  • Airman596

    In addition to those who enjoy AK pistol variants, buying an AK pistol variant is easy to turn into an SBR as all one needs is a Form 1 and a stock. There is a demand for a 5.45x39mm AK pistol variant and someone supplied it. Attacking a gun manufacturer who is responding to a demand from its customers is absurd. Have we been reduced to children who are avoiding pissing off our “parents” (ATF)? MAC, I enjoy your work, but this blog post gets a thumbs down from me.

    • Airman596

      Brian said it best: “Fuck that mentality that treats us all like kids trying to avoid pissing off our ‘parents’.”

      We should not attack our own. Adding choices to the market is a good thing and I welcome AK pistol variants. What we should be doing is organizing against politicians who vote for the legislation that enables the ATF to restrict our rights. The ATF is just the messenger. The politicians are responsible for this mess.

      • Military Arms Channel

        How would you feel if this was done by an importer for profit? What if this importer wanted to stop the import of cheap 5.45×39 by their competitors so they could control the prices and the market for 5.45×39? What if this importer had no intention of ever importing the pistol they submitted to the ATF and only used it to stop the flow of cheap 7N6? Would you be so forgiving then?

        • Airman596

          If your hypothetical situation happened, I would be upset with the politicians who enabled an importer to manipulate the market. I don’t blame the free market. I blame government for interfering with the free market. Your hypothetical situation is an example of what happens when we, the voters, give the government too much power.

          • Military Arms Channel

            So you would still support this importer by purchasing their products?

            • Airman596

              While I try to support ethical businesses whenever possible, I don’t get upset at businesses for doing what businesses do in a capitalist society. When a business does something unethical, 9 times out of 10, it is because politicians passed a law to enable that business to manipulate the market. Your hypothetical situation is an example of the government choosing winners and losers rather than the free market. It is the government’s job to create conditions where a free market can exist. It is our job, as voters, to oppose politicians who undermine the free market.

            • Paul Kisling

              First there is no free market. The US market is one of the most highly regulated in existence. If free meaning you can use it then yes its free. But free as in unregulated, no way no how. We have permits for lemonade stands…

              Second the mere presence of a law does not give the business a right to break it out of inconvenience. It does not matter how many times out of 10 it gets blamed on someone else. The business’s bad acts are still the business’s bad acts. This oh so American attitude of making it someone else’s fault you screw up or outright broke the law is America’s fatal flaw….

            • Airman596

              Lucky Gunner jacked up their prices immediately after the tragedy at Sandy Hook. I’ve seen several of your videos featuring ammo you purchased from Lucky Gunner after that tragedy. If you’re upset at your hypothetical importer who is taking advantage of politicians’ tomfoolery, then why do you continue to support Lucky Gunner who took advantage of politicians’ tomfoolery after Sandy Hook? Who is the responsible party here? The importer or politicians? Lucky Gunner or politicians?

            • Paul Kisling

              In other words YES YOU WOULD SUPPORT THEM!

    • n0truscotsman

      There is a demand for illegally modified automatic AKs too, that doesn’t mean some fucktard should jump on it, advertise it on the internet, then post incorrect information trying to abdicate himself from responsibility and the legal consequences.

      Battles against these stupid laws are best done on a proactive end, not a reactive. Now we HAVE to react.

      When will people realize that the gun community IS a community, and the actions of a few do ultimately affect the rest? its not that hard of a fucking concept.

      • Airman596

        Your comment is not relevant to my comment. An AK pistol variant is legal. New automatic AKs are not. Apples and oranges.

        • n0truscotsman

          Yes it is “relevant”, because it is the tired “there is a demand for X and somebody supplied it” argument.

          Dont get pissed at me, because “there was a demand for it and somebody supplied it”. I hope you’re fucking satisfied that your Von Mises experiment worked out so well for everyone 0__o

          • Airman596

            No, it is not relevant. Making an AK pistol variant is legal. Making an automatic weapon and selling it to civilians is not legal. Your comparison is invalid.

            • n0truscotsman

              Oh, well I’m glad you finally distinguish “legal” and “illegal” when you made your blanket statement about demand and suppliers. /rolls eyes

              Your “demand for it and somebody supplied it” is unicorn, randian nonsense. Its a good way for one being a self-interested moron, whose actions end up fucking everyone else, to drop all sense of responsibility.

              It was an understanding in the gun world that worked for over a decade and a small group of people broke it. Well you reap the whirlwind I suppose.

            • Airman596

              In support of your argument, you made an invalid comparison, go on to spout profanities, and “rolls eyes.” I’m sorry, but I don’t take what you write seriously. You live in a fantasy world if you think businesses care about anything other than their bottom line. For every ethical business, there is an unethical business out there. That’s the way it is in a capitalist society. Rather than complain about an unethical business “screwing us over,” oppose the politicians that pass legislation that enables that unethical business from manipulating the market. Otherwise, take your complaints about unethical businesses to an Occupy Wall Street protest.

            • n0truscotsman

              You keep spouting that my comparison is “invalid” but it certainly isn’t (there is, after all, a market for illegal goods, no?). Then you have the audacity to give me a lecture about “ethical and unethical” businesses, which was my point to begin with. So you are supporting my allegedly invalid statement without realizing it.

              Bravo…

              I’m not complaining about unethical businesses and Ill be the first to say that the main ones to blame here are the fuckwits that anoint the ATF to begin with and support their draconian laws.

              Being in a supposedly free enterprise society, I have a right to complain about somebody fucking everybody over. I also have a right to not do business with them and to encourage others to not to. Freedom cuts both ways bucko.

              So, in conclusion, you are missing my point completely.

            • Airman596

              Your point is that a business should not sell something because our parents will take away our privileges. Your point is bullshit.

              So someone should not sell an AK pistol variant when there is a demand for it because 7N6 will be banned due to a law passed by politicians who don’t want us to own guns whatsoever? Yes, whoever sold that AK pistol variant is a horrible company or individual. How dare that business try to make money meeting a demand from its customers by selling something that is protected under the Second Amendment!

              We should just roll over and obey our “parents.” We wouldn’t want them to get upset. Otherwise, they’ll take away our “privilege” to buy 7N6 surplus ammo. I guess we just got grounded by the ATF for daring to exercise our rights.

            • Paul Kisling

              Somehow I doubt there is a demand for a weapon that will make importing ammunition for said weapon, unfeasible rendering the weapon useless or extremely expensive to operate.
              That is NOT how supply and demand works.

              Perhaps your demand friends are SADISTS that Demand being bent over a barrel and reamed…

            • n0truscotsman

              Exactly

              Jesus I wish people would think shit through…

            • mbsells

              Either way, the manufacturers of the AK pistols that caused BATFE to decide to re-classify this ammo are culpable and could be sued in civil court.

            • n0truscotsman

              For the first point,

              Read my fucking responses before shooting off your mouth. I never said fully automatics and pistol AKs are the same, but airman brought up that “there is a demand for it and somebody supplied it” and I said how is that different than anything else? sure there is a “demand” for it. That doesn’t mean somebody should fulfill it for individual profit and end up fucking everybody else. That is my point.

              Yes I’m aware of how arbitrary the law is. It should be overturned while we are in the “good” and such a ban is not in effect to begin with. Now we have to work against the momentum of the ban (which is much more difficult).

              Im also aware of what 7N6 is, especially when compared to M855 (I should, since Ive been buying crates for the past 10 years).

              “Your point is that a business should not sell something because our “parents” will take away our “privileges.” Your point is bullshit.”

              That is not my point. My point is pick your battles so that you gain more in the end rather than having to swim against the current. Tactics without strategy doesn’t yield victory and its shameful that some gun owners such as yourself cannot see that.

              “Yes, whoever sold that AK pistol variant is a horrible company or individual. How dare that business try to make money meeting a demand from its customers by selling something that is protected under the Second Amendment!”

              Oh save the histrionics.

              There IS the 2nd amendment issue, which needs to be fought regardless.

              But to believe this person is completely innocent is naive at best and moronic at worst. What ever happened to taking responsibility?

              “We should just roll over and obey our “parents.” We wouldn’t want them to get upset. Otherwise, they’ll take away our “privilege” to buy 7N6 surplus ammo. I guess we just got grounded by the ATF for daring to exercise our rights.”

              Who the fuck said anything about “rolling over”?

              Having access to ammo and legally fighting the law is better than not having ammo and legally fighting the law, no?

              “I don’t agree that a business selling an AK pistol variant in 5.45x39mm is unethical”

              Thats your problem and the source of our disconnect.

              That is the same pseudo-logic applied by the Olympic Arms president.

              “However, even if that business did do something unethical, politicians are ultimately responsible for enabling that business to manipulate the market in an unethical manner.”

              Bullshit…

              and why is it now acceptable to have a parental government all of a sudden?

              “Thus, we should focus on those politicians rather than complain about a gun manufacturer or gunsmith selling AK pistol variants.”

              That I agree with.

  • DrPrepper

    It’s all gone. All of it.
    MAC, any plans to do some reliability testing on your Definitive Arms AK? Pouring dirt into the actions and magazines?

  • Essayons12

    So is this going to make AK-74′s price go up???

    • Cymond

      It’s more likely that the price of 74s will go down a little. Some people only bought a 74 to shoot cheap ammo, and they don’t want a rifle without the 7n6. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I saw a comment from someone considering buying a 74 because 5.45×39 was cheaper than 22lr. I know 5.45 AR barrels have been gaining popularity for the same reason.

  • Samuel Adams

    The problem isn’t the people who made the pistol. The problem is the stupid laws! The problem stems from administrative discretion given to BATFE.

    • Paul Kisling

      That hardly ever stands up court as an argument. Its not me its the law…
      The company who made the pistols knew the ammo would get banned simply from past ATF acts. They did it anyway. That is being culpable.

      • Samuel Adams

        I agree the makers of the pistol are A holes, as they likely knew the outcome. We seem to be focused on the symptoms instead of the disease. The ATF is the disease.

    • mbsells

      I am thinking of suing the manufacturers of the pistols in civil court. They knew what they were doing by poking the bear and they thought they were being cute. Well they can grin all they want once they get drummed out of the firearms business and mortgage their house to pay their lawyers.

      • Samuel Adams

        Good luck with that….

        You still missed the point. The NFA and ATF in its current form is unconstitutional.

        Shall not be infringed*

        *unless barrel is shorter than 16″ for rifle, 18″ for shotgun, OAL less than 26, arbitrarily classified as an AOW or DD, has select fire and/or ammo we think is scary.

        • n0truscotsman

          The laws in regards to barrel length and suppressors certainly need abolished.

        • Sterling Hayden

          Then get yourself arrested with an NFA weapon and sue and prove it, instead of just blathering on the internet. You could be a hero like Heller instead of a zero who encourages others to rebel while hiding behind a computer.

          • Samuel Adams

            So is that on your agenda, hero?

            I dont have the means to have a lawyer represent me.

  • n0truscotsman

    Thanks for reporting this!

    It sucks for those (like me) that shoot AKs and have found refuge in 5.45 and 7.62×39 to alleviate the ridiculous shortages and prices of 5.56.

    Now 5.45 is undoubtedly destined to be similar to 5.56 and 7.62 in cost.

    To me, there are two parties to blame.

    First and foremost, the ATF. Those scum suckers deserve nothing more than to be last in the unemployment line, their supporters ostracized into shame. Need I say more? they are the epitome of low information bureaucrats making laws while they know fuck all about firearms or ammunition.

    Second, the individual who sold this pistol, knowing full well the consequences of it. Is it any mystery why on any gun forum talk of 5.45 pistols was silenced? did they think it was for the exercise of wagging fingers?

    Anyways, I hope all of you are pushing the NRA and our legislators, as futile of a effort that is. Since us gun owners temporarily blunted the gun control momentum following Sandy Hook, we can overturn this bullshit, not only for AK shooters, but for all shooters as laws like these are always incremental.

  • n0truscotsman

    “But in the writer’s opinion Bob Schuetz must accept the responsibility for being stubborn, short-sighted and insensitive to the realities of firearms commerce.

    “He was informed of the implications of his actions, had the opportunity to address the problem before SHOT Show ’94. then had another opportunity to redress the wrong-headed ATF action, and elected not to do so in either instance. After ATF’s precipitous and preemptive action of February 1994, Olympic Arms could and should have gone to the mat with ATF on this matter. There would have been plenty of support from others in the firearms community who were adversely affected by the 7.62 X 39mm ammo proscription.”

    “Why they did not pursue this matter is known best to Schuetz, but as he probably still goes to church on Sunday and still feels good about himself, clearly it was not one of his priorities.”

    From Mac’s Gun Zone link

    hmmm, it seems some people sound startlingly similar as Scheutz. Lets all be honest with each other and cut the bullshit.

  • Airman596

    While I do not agree with MAC’s attitude that we should be upset at the gun manufacturer or gunsmith who is selling an AK pistol variant in 5.45x39mm, I will be absolutely on his side if that company or individual does not challenge the law in court. The ethical responsibility to challenge the law that bans the importation of 7N6 is borne from selling an AK pistol variant in 5.45x39mm.

  • MAC
  • mbsells

    Seems a lawsuit was filed by the GOA on this. Arbitrarily re-classifying rifle rounds as pistol rounds simply because someone builds an SBR without a stock, thereby meeting the loose definitions of a “pistol”. In addition to exempting M855 as sporting where as 7n6 being comprised of the exact same internal compounds of steel and lead.

    You don’t poke the bear, the builders of these pistols who caused this should be sued in civil court for any damages they have done to people who invested heavily in 74 pattern rifles.

  • Louis Chapman

    The process of deciding whether or not something is banned is a complex one. First, B.Todd Jones is invited to the Oval office. Once there, Obama asks him to “demonstrate leadership.” If Jones gags, the item in question is banned.

  • Concerned Patriot

    We need to fight this for sure. The law CLEARLY states the definition of armor piercing by the ATF the Bullet must be larger than .22 caliber. 5.45 is NOT larger than .22! use a metric to inches calculator, it is NOT larger. Spread the word patriots, tell everyone you know. Just imagine the slap in the face to thier liberal agenda if we get this ban overturned! Read the law:
    18 U.S. Code § 921 – Definitions
    educate yourselves and lets put up a fight.

    • Altse Hosteen

      Actually, the law doesn’t say that. 18 U.S.C. 921(B)(i) provides:

      (B)The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
      (i)a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

      The argument would be that 7n6 has a projectile core that is steel. End of story.

    • Brian Diffenderfer

      if you converted 5.45 to inches yes you do get .213, but if you actually measure it, its .221. Same goes for 5.56 to inches, you get .218, but in actuality, the 5.56 round is .224

  • Matt Goodwin

    It’s a bigger issue. Liberal fascists like the ones in power NOW and continuing to expand are the problem. It’s BIG government and the future implications. Remember the Lf’s believe they (more government) know what’s best for everyone. You’re looking at the bottom rung of the CAUSE. WAKE UP to what’s happening all around! Look no further that ACA at work (or not).

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  • JimFromTheWoods

    The main point of 5.45×39 weapons for most people is that they’re cheap to feed. This is almost exactly shitting where you eat. How many pistols will the guy sell if nobody wants them because the ammo just got expensive!?

    Foresight is for the rest of us I guess.

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  • Tricky Dick

    I hope the douchebag who caused this has one of his cruddy pistols blow up in his face.

  • Christopher John

    We need to get this crap reversed so all ammo is legal. Where do we start?

  • Lance

    “”ATF
    should limit itself to the statutory authority it was given regarding
    handgun ammunition and leave rifle ammunition alone……ATF has
    implemented its authority under this statute in an arbitrary and
    capricious manner.”- William J. Olsen, attorney for Gun Owners of
    America”

  • MTCheme

    This is all rather interesting , but I think the real reason for the BATF is sitting on the request is because of the country of origin *Russia* – Anyone watching the news lately can figure out the “why” … just sayin – if the current situation eventually diffuses, things may return to normal (sic) hehe … whatever that is….

  • rahliE

    Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’m almost positive that there are PLENTY of 5.45 “pistols” out there waiting for a tax stamp.. Am I wrong in thinking that? Even AR style 5.45 pistols.. Why all of a sudden is it a problem? And why doesn’t it affect American manufactured so-called “armor piercing” rounds like M855?

  • KNERDY

    Blaming a manufacturer for import bans is like blaming them for gun crimes. Get real and blame the BATF.

  • Frank Schoner

    The enemy here is government, specifically the BATFE. Olympic Arms isn’t the problem and neither is someone who is making a 5.45×39 handgun, whoever that is. Blaming a manufacturer is going 100 mph in the wrong direction.

  • Randy Sanders

    This coming from the very same people that called a shoestring a firearm.

  • Jb

    Besides contacting the nra to voice opposition, what avenues can individuals pursue? One of the appeals of the ak74 has been the inexpensive surplus ammo.

  • SHOTGUN285

    wouldn’t surprise me to find out the BATFE nudged someone to make a pistol for this round just so they could ban it’s import.

  • neutered10mm

    Please explain how this is different than chambering a AR-15 pistol with 62 grain green tip penetrators? It’s not other than the fact that those are produced domestically. Is this an importation issue exclusely or would U.S. Manufacture of soft steel core 5.45×39 be banned as well?

  • Charles

    I have a feeling that the issue in part at least is something to do with the situation between Russia and the Ukraine. We (the US) imposed sanctions (supposedly) on Russia so it’s not surprising that we cannot import ammo from there.

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  • Unlicensed Dremel

    That IS the official denial letter, seems to me. It’s a letter (albeit in email form), and it’s pretty clear – “your answer is no”.

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  • wolfgang2000

    Olympic didn’t do any thing wrong. They were contracted by the US government to engineer the gun. Lets blame the truly responsible party. A over bearing government that will use any underhanded trick to smash the 2nd amendment.

  • http://www.youtube.com/lordstickmax LordStickMax

    you know, it occurs to me that grenade propelled ammo exists for shotguns(look up aa-12). does this mean they can ban all shotguns under the NFA?

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  • U.S. Constitution defender

    The gunowners.org is all over these and other attempts to chip away at our Constitutionally protected 2nd amendment rights and freedoms with editable email letters to Congress just click the take action tab, very user friendly no membership required. Also a very good 2nd amendment petition is at act.theteaparty.net no membership required, our political activity(reminds politicians that we will vote this single issue)and our votes in 2014 and beyond for candidates who uphold, protect and defend our entire U.S. Constitution. We as gun owners, shooters and hunters must stand together in solidarity an attack against one area of gun rights will be further restricted to affect all gun owners, ask the gun owners of England and Australia where gun control in the disguise of moderation leads to.

  • U.S. Constitution defender

    The gunowners.org is all over these and other attempts to chip away
    at our Constitutionally protected 2nd amendment rights and freedoms
    with editable email letters to Congress just click the take action tab,
    very user friendly no membership required. Also a very good 2nd
    amendment petition is at act.theteaparty.net no membership required,
    our political activity(reminds politicians that we will vote this
    single issue)and our votes in 2014 and beyond for candidates who uphold,
    protect and defend our entire U.S. Constitution. We as gun owners,
    shooters and hunters must stand together in solidarity an attack against
    one area of gun rights will be further restricted to affect all gun
    owners, ask the gun owners of England and Australia where gun control in
    the disguise of moderation leads to.

  • JodyJr1

    I know little about any type of weapon and its bullets/shells, but I do think all of what has happened during the past 5-plus years is part of a bunch of ill-thinking, mean-spirited persons who want to do away with our Constitution – starting with the 2nd amendment. I am a member of the NRA because I believe it is the one organization that is trying to halt what I fear is unstoppable.

    God Bless America!

  • Paladin

    Sue the bastards and if the courts don’t respond, do what the Founders intended.

  • Padráig Mac An TSaoir

    I just puked up gin…

  • Corbin

    Why isnt the NRA, GOA, etc constantly going on the offensive to have some of these ignorant laws repealed? Especially import and US surplus ammo laws along with suppressors. Who needs all the noise which causes hearing loss, and gun ranges closing due to encroaching subdivisions.

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  • Michael Black

    I’m sure an order has come from Oboo booo, to do what ever possible to stop the importation.

  • curious joe

    Okay, so since the “damage” has been done, I am curious why no one is selling these 5.45×39 pistols?

  • Storm

    So would buying a ak74 today be a bad idea then