The Hiring Follies of Troy Industries

Troy Industries has recently hired a several instructors for their “Troy Asymmetric” training division that have enraged many within the firearms community.

Troy hires Jody Weis

A screen shot from the Troy Industries website showing the announcement of Jody Weis being an instructor for Asymmetric.

Recently Troy announced they had hired former Chicago top cop Jody Weis as an instructor for their training division. Mr. Weis has a long sordid history of being an outspoken opponent of the 2nd Amendment throughout his career as a police officer. After the events at Sandy Hook, Mr. Weis penned an op-ed piece for the Chicago Sun Times that called for “enhanced background checks” and a ban on “high capacity magazines for assault weapons”. Troy Industries is the manufacturer of the Battle Mag which is a popular polymer AR15 standard capacity magazine. Why Mr. Weis would seek employment with a company that manufactures products he lobbies to have banned is almost as perplexing as trying to understand why Troy Industries would hire him.

The ensuing outrage from the firearms community prompted Troy Industries to hand Mr. Weis his pink slip in fairly short order.

Then there’s the matter of Dale Monroe. Troy hired him as an instructor for the Asymmetric training group back in May of 2013. Perhaps you recognize the name Dale R. Monroe from news stories that circulated in the early 1990’s.  Yup, you guessed it, I’m talking about Ruby Ridge. Back in 1992 Mr. Monroe was a FBI HRT sniper and his partner was Lon Horiuchi, for whom he was spotting. Together these two men were responsible for the death of Vicki Weaver who was unarmed and innocently holding her 10 month daughter when Horiuchi’s bullet cut her down. Some might say that Dale wasn’t the man who pulled the trigger and the murder of Mrs. Weaver was solely on the shoulders of Lon.

Steve Troy AR15 Dale Monroe

The owner of Troy Industries, Steve Troy, attempts to explain his company’s hiring of Dale Monroe.

During the 1995 Senate investigation of the Ruby Ridge stand-off, Mr. Monroe testified that he was prepared to take the shot if he had a clear view at the time. Monroe also defended the actions of Lon Horiuchi during the Senate hearings. An internal DOJ task force had determined the shot taken by Horiuchi was unconstitutional to which Monroe told the Senate committee that he “totally disagreed”, according to this LA Times article.

The outrage over Mr. Monroe’s hiring has been escalating on discussion forums such as AR15.com. In response to countless angry posts the owner of Troy industries, Steve Troy, took to the interwebs to justify his company’s decision to hire the former FBI sniper. Shockingly, his post appears to defend Mr. Monroe and his involvement in the Ruby Ridge stand-off.

On August 22, 1992, Dale was an HRT Operator tasked to a mission in which he found himself facing armed adversaries. His thoughts were not only on the situation at hand, but the tragic death of a child and a U.S. Marshal. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. He was fortunate not to have to take a life at this engagement. Special Agent Horiuchi made the regrettable shot, a mistake for which he will never be forgiven. Of the FBI Agents assigned to the Ruby Ridge tragedy, Dale has been one of the most outspoken. He has delivered dozens of presentations to more than 1000 civilians titled “Mistakes and Lessons of Ruby Ridge”.

Given what I know about the events of Ruby Ridge based upon witness testimony, including that of Mr. Monroe, I’m a bit stunned by Steve’s post. It appears he is completely ignorant of the facts surrounding the case and of Mr. Monroe’s own testimony before the Senate.

As of this writing Troy Industries has not terminated the employment of Dale Monroe.

MAC

MAC is an avid shooter, former MCSF Marine, NRA member, Oath Keeper and is commissioned as a Colonel by the Governor of Kentucky. Known for his videos on the Military Arms Channel, he also writes for The Bang Switch, for Shotgun News (Be Ready!) and freelances for Guns & Ammo. MAC has been a life long shooter who has an interest in all things that go "bang" but gravitates towards military type firearms.

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  • Brian

    Wow, eye opening. Thanks for passing this information on. Definitely make my decision of whether or not to purchase a Troy battle mag easier. Troy Industries obviously does not have the type of ethos I wish to support with my money.

    • ZM

      Spot on.

      • http://gravatar.com/therealgreenplease therealgreenplease

        +1

    • Webstrands

      No more Troy gear for me!

    • Chris

      Ha! Knew there was I a reason I was not buying Troy gear, they sure recovered the market early, while some are still waiting on Magpul?

      Pfft… Shenangins behind the scenes on both ends, go figure…

  • RJ

    Yea far as I am concerned Troy industries are as dipped in shit as Dale Monroe now .Lot of other businesses out there far more deserving of my hard earned money

  • Josh B

    See. Background checks don’t even work when hiring people. How in the hell are they supposed to stop vicious psychos hell bent on murdering innocent people.

    • Defiant

      Best. Example. Ever.

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  • Bryan

    I read somewhere (It might be wrong) but I thought he had taken a shot at (I think his name was) Kevin and nicked his elbow then the bullet traveled through a door way and hit Vicky in the face. I don’t think he took aim (Or even saw her at all) at Vicky with the intension to kill her. ether way it is inexcusable.

    • Anon

      Know your target and what’s beyond it.

    • Dale Cooper

      Once you have looked at this event, over a protracted period of time and from all angles, it is clear Horiuchi INTENDED to kill Vicki Weaver.
      This whole thing – from the start – was a dyed-in-the-wool Witch Hunt, hatched by over-zealous, tiny-dicked, JBT’s.
      Let them all rot in Hell.

  • Max

    and i almost bought another rail from them. this is just sad that such a good product line is now tainted by poor management. My dollars will go elsewhere now.

  • RPM509

    I really don’t know what to comment on here that hasn’t already been said. It still amazes me that our own ‘side’ does stupid as well as the liberal, anti-gun crowd. Really Troy?

  • Mike

    Steve Troy seems completely oblivious to why citizens are upset with having Dale Monroe on staff.

  • Del

    No CEO wants to admit to being ‘WRONG’ in their decisions. After the first one, you say ‘That’s OK, he made a mistake, but it was corrected’. Then he goes and makes another mistake, only to try and justify that mistake poorly. The ole saying ‘Two wrongs don’t make a right’ clearly rings true here. I judge people and/or companies by their actions. I was considering the purchase of some Troy gear.. Looks like that intent evaporated along with my respect for this company.

  • David

    Looks like Troy doesn’t want my business…

    • wayne

      Yep, I`ve got one of their mags, but finding this out sheds new light to the subject of purchasing another, I will pass.

  • ChrisJ

    I’m having a hard time putting pen to paper, so to speak, on how to phrase this, but if he is in fact a good guy who actually has real and valuable learnings to share, it shouldn’t be too hard to back track from his senate testimony. It’s one thing for him to say that they made the best decision they knew how when the event was fresh, but in theory, being a trainer now, he’s learned something since then. With years of hindsight and further training one would hope he should perhaps be able to say that there were better alternatives and wishes he had provided such training to Horiuchi, Wenger, and his past self. Right?

  • http://gravatar.com/therealgreenplease therealgreenplease

    Truly mind boggling. Too many other good companies out there so Troy won’t get any of my business for the foreseeable future. Their loss.

  • Matt

    Really Troy? Those are the two best you could find? Send your money to Magpul or any other of the great companies out there.

  • Michael Stratton

    Well there’s another place I won’t be doing business with now. Sorry Troy.

  • John

    I’m not sure what to make of this, but you can bet I won’t be buying anything from Troy until I know more.

  • https://www.facebook.com/th3design Trey Hall

    They were not facing “armed adversaries”, they targeting citizens who had done nothing to warrant the attack the FBI and ATF launched on them. Guess I will not be ordering any more Troy products. Troy’s response is by far worse than the statements made in the Recoil magazine regarding HK’s MP7 (I believe), as they would seem to indicate that the killing of an innocent woman and baby were acceptable and even deserved.

  • MrAlligam

    I was on deployment overseas in the Navy during Ruby Ridge and didn’t follow the trial. I understand the disgust at the death of an unarmed woman, but blaming a guy that was on duty but didn’t take the shot, and has tried to prevent the recurrence of such a situation by providing lessons learned is a stretch for me. I guess since I wasn’t here for the initial outrage, I don’t understand it now — 20 years later.

    • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

      You don’t understand that Monroe was Lon’s spotter and said in Senate testimony that he would have taken the shot given the opportunity? Did you not know that Monroe defended Lon’s actions in the Senate hearings? Monroe was not only spotting for Lon (which would make him an accessory to murder since he assisted in the killing directly) but he later defended Lon’s actions which to me is completely unacceptable. I wouldn’t hire Monroe to mow my lawn.

      • MrAlligam

        Thanks MAC — I didn’t know — now I do.

  • Josh

    Not that I ever bought from them but will certainly look elsewhere in the future.

  • David Clark

    MAC – Second sentence the word should be sordid; not sorted.

    I am really impressed that you always seem to be one of the first to find out and post stuff like this.

    • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

      Thank you, it always helps to have a second set of eyes proofing your copy.

  • icepick37

    I think you meant sordid where you wrote: “Mr. Weis has a long sorted history”. Dunno if you care, but figured I’d point it out.

    This is really creepy to me. I do believe in giving people a fair shake. But to have defended obvious murder. :/ I’d have to believe he still feels that way if he’s not said otherwise.

  • Doug

    How many times do we see something like this? Troy made some very poor hiring decisions. Either they didn’t adequately look into the backgrounds of these hires, or they knew about their pasts and hired them anyway. Now that these bad decisions have come back to bite them, what is the response? All too often companies in this position will dig in and steadfastly refuse to accept that they made a bad decision. This is not a case of an anti-2A group launching some sort of campaign of manufactured outrage. These are Troy’s potential and existing customers who feel betrayed by their actions. These are people who have been unfairly victimized by the gun-banning, anti-2A zealots. These are people who believe deeply in the right to bear arms. It is not surprising that they would feel strongly that Troy’s actions are an insult and offense to them personally and the rights that they hold so dear. Troy is stunningly tone deaf in their response. It tells me that, for whatever reason they are sticking with their hiring decision, Troy’s leadership fundamentally fails to understand the anger of their customers and gun owners in general. The leadership at Troy is reacting emotionally to the blow-back they are receiving. They can’t put aside their hubris and act dispassionately for the good of their company. The folks at Troy are quickly going to learn that alienating one’s customers is not a productive business plan. There are plenty of alternatives available to gun owners and those gun owners will probably want to patronize businesses that actively work to support our 2nd Amendment rights.

    Pride goeth before the fall.

  • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

    This is fucking ignorant! Dale Monroe was a tier 1 operator for the fbi! He made 1 mistake yes it ended in the death of an innocent woman, yes it is horrific! That does not negate his years of experience, 1 fuckup can take away 1000 atta boys. Shit was 23 years ago I’m sure he fights with the guilt of his bad call every day. Saying he is a piece of shit and can bring nothing good to troy is ignorant tho. Again tier 1 operator+bad decision does not = a total fuckup…

    • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

      That’s surprisingly easy to say when it wasn’t your wife that had her entire face blown off in front of you and your children. To you 23 years ago may seem like an eternity but to Randy Weaver and his surviving children it seems like yesterday. I know, I’ve spoken to Randy in person.

      • Samuel Suggs

        +10 to this

      • Bill

        Ruby Ridge was a situation wherein ATF entrapped a man (Randy Weaver) into sawing the barrel of a shotgun off to an illegal length, then tried to force him into providing info on others. He did not cooperate and warrants were issued (but there is a question of whether they were properly serves) on him. Federal marshals were snooping on his property and were discovered by the family dog. The marshals shot the dog and the 14 year old son. A marshal was also shot. A standoff ensued and FBI HRT was called in. Snipers killed the wife and wounded a young man. The story I have heard is that Mrs. Weaver was determined to be the “leader” of the household and marked for assassination. The results of this debacle included embarrassment for the feds and a huge civil judgment in favor of Weaver. The scenario is: ATF screwed up, US Marshals and FBI came to save face by bailing them out, innocent people were killed, FBI killers walked because they were “just following orders.” A bit later the same scenario played out in Waco Texas. The use of the “He was just following orders” excuse is pretty lame, but apparently it works for the feds much better than it did for the Axis war criminals after WWII — pity.

      • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

        I understand the fact that what he did was wrong. Being in a tier 1 unit makes you always want perfection, bottom line is that sometimes things go wrong. What do you suppose he does just give up and become homeless? Kill himself? What is done is done there is no going back to that moment. He can either give up, because he made a terrible mistake or contribute his expertise in his field. I’m not defending the killing of an innocent, what I am saying is that everybody deserves a second chance. Condolences to the family, but again he has to live with the demons. Mistakes happen, Monroe is still an expert in the field of special operations and is a good hire for troy industries.

        • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

          Monroe shouldn’t be working at Troy because I believe he should be sitting on death row along with Lon.

          Wrecking your car is a mistake. Getting your girlfriend pregnant is a mistake. Having too much to drink and puking in your friends car is a mistake.

          Laying in wait with a sniper rifle while plotting to execute a mother holding her 10 month old daughter is murder and for that we generally remove such sociopaths from our society and either lock them up for life or put a needle in their arm.

          • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

            If that is the case then we have the same mindset. What I have read tells that Lou took a shot and Randy wounding him. The second shot being assigned to Harris, witch it struck, but also struck Vicky killing her. If it is as you wrote it then of course you are right.

          • Scott

            I think you are confusing accidents and mistakes. They are not the same thing or mutually exclusive.

        • http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com Tam

          The fact remains that even the most charitable interpretation of the situation has a mother with babe in arms being shot in the head through negligence rather than malice. And the shooter was then shielded from accountability by the magic of sovereign immunity. No amount of Tier 1 nuthuggery will erase that.

        • http://gravatar.com/slobyskya Slobyskya Rotchikokov

          You ask, should this bastard kill himself? Well, that would be a good move, and Whore-a-Hoochie should also rinse his mouth out with a 12 gauge. You do not fire unless you are sure of the target AND what is behind it.
          As for Troy, here’s a principle to remember:
          Good men hire good men; a@@holes hire a@@holes.

          • Cymond

            I find this promotion of suicide interesting. They did something horrible and now people are calling for their suicides because they feel these 2 men are beyond any salvation. Yet, these same people probably look down on a Japanese ritual suicide, which is a similar concept of suicide after an act with no possible redemption.

        • Craig Smith

          Kill himself sounds pretty good to me.

      • http://gravatar.com/slobyskya Slobyskya Rotchikokov

        @ MAC – I salute you. Thank you for keeping this issue out front.

    • https://www.facebook.com/th3design Trey Hall

      So he is a Tier 1?? 2 lives taken and others irreparably damaged not because of a mistake but because of a criminal act. Lon Horiuchi was indicted and more than likely would have been found guilty but for Federal intervention. Hell, Kevin Harris was aqquitted on the grounds of self-defense for shooting and killing a US Marshall. Calling this a mistake is not only a grossly inaccurate statement, but a testimony to how little you understand the events that took place and there ramifications of those events.

      • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

        You are absolutely right, except for the fact he was a spotter. He took 0 lives… He may have cleared the shot because of a direct order… He said he would have done the same thing as his partner, to help his brother in arms out. They followed orders, but more specifically Lou took the shot, Lou did the killing not monroe. Now the point that you are not getting is I never once justified the killing, only justified giving a man who is an expert in the field he has been hired in to be given a chance. You want to boycott one of the best tactical companies in the world for hitting one of the most qualified people for the job. That is ignorant…

        • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

          Do you know what a spotter is or what their function is?

          What do you think would happen to me if my buddy decided to go snipe someone for sport and I tagged along as his spotter? Lets say I spotted for him and he killed an innocent woman in a grocery store parking lot as she carried her baby daughter into the store. The police nabbed us and took us to jail.

          What do you think my buddy would be charged with? Answer: Murder.

          What do you think I would be charged with? Answer: Murder.

          You don’t have to pull the trigger to be guilty of murder. Being an accessory to murder will earn you the same charge and the same punishment in most cases if found guilty, especially in a crime as heinous as this one.

          • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

            Really? Too much fail to even reply. Goodnight.

          • http://www.military-arms.com MAC

            Fail? Are you ignorant of the law or do you think “tier 1 operators” are above the law?

          • https://www.facebook.com/lee.kendall.71 Lee Kendall

            Yes fail, and obviusly if what you say happened, witch is essentially that two fib hrt members just got a wild hair, and started a killing spree. Then yes they are above the law as they are both free men.

            • Wacky Camper

              Lee, STFU and go retake elementary grammar and spelling.

          • thebronze

            Lee Kendall is a f*cking moron that can’t comprehend what he reads. Don’t feed that troll!

        • http://gravatar.com/slobyskya Slobyskya Rotchikokov

          If someone who would defend his ‘comrade in arms’ from a woman menacing him with a baby, can be called an expert and given a job in a company like Troy, then by your logic, the US should have hired a few crack SS Waffen boys, who were indeed experts at arms and killing, to be military advisers. Oh, and how many people did Eichmann directly kill? Any more than Monroe? Ahhh… the men at the death camps were, in your own words, just following orders. So, all is OK. Jahwohl!

        • Craig Smith

          The SS followed orders, Hitlers’ and Eichmans’ orders. I geuss all those war crimes trials were flawed?

        • Napoleon Plastique

          Quit making excuses for him. I know your type. Another Mall Ninja suffering from Shiny Object Syndrome. You think all that JBT/MIC stuff is glamorous, don’t you? Well, it’s not. This isn’t a video game, son. The whole debacle was a poorly-thought-out and utterly POINTLESS entrapment scheme from the start. All over one-eighth of an inch of a fucking shotgun barrel, Was that worth taking lives over? Was it?
          I’ll never get people like you. You’ll gladly sell your freedoms and rights down the river because some asshole “was just following orders”, or because the media said they were just going after the “bad guys” and something went wrong. Yeah – well wait until that “bad guy” is YOU, and it’s YOUR wife that gets killed.
          There are prices to be paid for making poor decisions. Sadly, the prices that these thugs have paid have been NOTHING compared to what the Weavers (and so many others like them) have paid — in blood. And for NO REASON at all.
          You seriously need a self-imposed reality check.

    • https://www.facebook.com/alan.watkins Alan Wtkins

      I find it funny that the dumber your argument is the more profanity you need to use, grow up little boy.

    • Floyd Looney

      What guilt? Monroe feels no guilt and defends what happened there.

  • Douglas Ortego

    Troy, you’re done.

  • john chamberlain

    you can tell the makings of a man, or in this case a company, by his friends and associates.

  • LMOMechtech

    I won’t and anyone I am acquainted with will ever purchase any thing from Troy Industries! There are others to buy from that seem to have a handle on reality and realize the preciosness of the second amendment and human life.

  • Samuel Suggs

    you can trust MAgpul to never pull this shit just buy from them.

    • Samuel Suggs

      personally I think we kinda owe them

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  • http://twitter.com/CriminalsUnion Criminals Union (@CriminalsUnion)

    We thank Troy Industries for hiring our members, who will never be prosecuted for their complicity in the murders of defenseless civilians, because we don’t prosecute our own.

  • http://prairiepatriot.blogspot.com Prairie Patriot

    Very disappointing to hear this. Thanks for the report, MAC.

  • Colonel H

    I really like Troy’s sites, but I do not see how I can do business with them when they hire enemies of the constitution. Until Troy Industries repents, I will boycott.

    Now I need a rugged alternative to Troy’s BUIS.

    • lineman

      GG&G Sites

  • http://Facebook Rob Lowe

    Thanks, I know now not to buy their products.

  • Harold

    After receiving no reply or acknowledgement to a product inquiry I had regarding one of their rails a couple of years ago, I vowed to never purchase from Troy. This just confirms my suspicion that this company has deeply flawed management practices and is undeserving of business. There are many outstanding companies out there that offer similar products of the same or higher quality at the same price point. Screw Troy Industries.

  • Matthew N

    Thanks for the heads up Mac, guess I won’t be buying those Troy battle sights after all. Passing this on to my buddies.

  • William Radford

    RULE # 1. Never even touch the trigger unless you are 100% sure OF YOUR TARGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Horiuchi and Monroe should be in prison. When you join Law Enforcement, you must accept that you will be held to a higher degree of responsibility, in return for having the power of the law in your hands. LEO’s can save, or ruin, a person’s life. The death of Mrs. Weaver was a direct result of criminal misconduct by several agencies, including ATF and the FBI. A Federal Judge in Spokane wrote, among other things,
    that the case against Randy Weaver was one of the worst cases of abuse of process he had ever seen. The only reason the matter blew up was that the warrant based on false testimony of ATF agents was delivered to Randy Weaver and had the wrong date for Weaver to appear in court listed on it. He was ready to appear in court, but when he learned there was a failure to appear warrant issued for him, because of the wrong date, he headed to his cabin. I believe the incorrect date on the warrant was issued because ATF did not want him to testify about how he was blackmailed to rat out a {supremacist} group that he had been to a meeting or two, and disagreed with their beliefs. He wouldn’t play ball, and they came after him. Everything that happened after the inducement of Weaver to cut down a shotgun barrel was A DIRECT RESULT OF CRIMINAL ACTIONS COMMITTED BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. And according to testimony, Randy Weaver literally missed the minimum length requirement by the thickness of the ‘sharpie’ pen he used to mark the barrel. had he cut it on the muzzle side of his mark, the gun would have legal One only need to read the transcripts of the trial that eventually took place, and the Judge’s condemnations he issued in his rulings to discover the accuracy of my post. A few years after the event (trial) I was fortunate enough to meet some people close to the case in Jackson Wyoming. Suffice it say, the conversation was most enlightening. Troy, you stepped on your pecker on this one. Oh, don’t give me any bs about not being able to find a job for Mr. Monroe. He could always take his “Tier 1 Operator” skills out on the private security market.

  • Scott kirkwood

    neither man was trying to shoot Vicki weaver. Just clarifying a point.

    • http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com Michael Z. Williamson

      What I recall from the transcripts I saw: Not only did they accept an order to shoot any adult, armed or unarmed, at several hundred yards, they identified a woman with a baby, and shot her. They were, in fact, trying to shoot her.

      The next morning, their “psyop” was to use a bullhorn and announce, “Good morning, we’re having (some kind of breakfast food). What are you having, Mrs Weaver?”

      Her corpse was still cold on the porch in view.

      Lon Horiuchi and Dale Monroe don’t deserve the death penalty. They deserve life in prison, spread eagled for every pervert to violate.

      There is nothing they can “learn” from this. They are cold-blooded murdering scum who used their badges to blow away someone out of sadistic joy.

      • http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com Tam

        Incorrect. The shot that hit Vicki traversed an opaque door before hitting her and then continuing on to hit its intended target.

        Not that gross negligence and depraved indifference via a blatant Rule Four violation is any more “Tier 1″ than the popular myth.

    • http://gravatar.com/slobyskya Slobyskya Rotchikokov

      “neither man was trying to shoot Vicki weaver. Just clarifying a point.”
      Then by your logic, we should give a free pass to all the gang bangers who kill bystanders in drive-by shootings. Sure, maybe a ten year old girls takes a 9 mm in the chest and goes belly up, but what the hell – they weren’t TRYING to shoot her.

  • https://www.facebook.com/paul.b.casterlin Paul B Casterlin

    I’m with MAC on this one…I remember this story very well. Following an un-ethical order is no excuse. I have a Troy Carbine and an very disappointed to hear about this lack of judgment in hiring employees.
    I’ll keep ky carbine but Troy won’t get any more of my business.

  • Cole

    Sad to see. I am a big fan of many of their products. Just lost a customer.

  • J

    “Why Mr. Weis would seek employment with a company that manufactures products he lobbies to have banned is almost as perplexing as trying to understand why Troy Industries would hire him.”

    Easy. Weis may support the delivery of Troy magazines to non-civilians. He may hope that they are banned for civilians. Then again, when in Chicago he may have just been sucking up to his superiors.

    Thanks for the article, Mac. My Troy shopping is on hold until they clarify their position. I hope that others take such principled positions.

  • http://gravatar.com/deputy72 shawn

    Since Magpul has been so vocal about being pro 2nd amendment, I wonder if our anit-gun government is telling federal agencies who use Magpul products to look elsewhere. I know some federal agencies buy lots and lots of Magpul magazines. Could Troy be hiring these types of guys in an effort to win good favor with the government? With the amount of quality instructors out there why on earth would Troy risk a kiss of death from their consumers for hiring these two? Unless of course they would rather have uncle sugar’s dollars.

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  • Andrew B.

    Another issue is that the HRT guys agreed to follow the ROE, even as other FBI units working with them refused, some making statements in official reports labeling the ROE “Bullshit.”

    The issue is that Mr. Monroe DOESN’T REGRET doing what he did. He excuses it by saying that he was only following orders- orders that were clearly illegal and recognized as such by many others in his proximity. He knew they were sketchy, but either didn’t question them or secretly agreed with them. One way or the other, if the same justice were applied to him that was applied to nazis on trial at Nuremburg, he would have been found guilty and hanged. There was no correct action other than refusing the illegal orders he was given. Sometimes having principles and morals means saying “No sir, and if you insist, then I quit.”

    If Mr. Monroe showed the slightest iota of guilt over his actions, if by his actions he showed how not to make the same mistake, things would be different. By all accounts, his instruction over the past years has been how to carry out the same mission he was tasked with, without getting into trouble, not that one should refuse illegal orders and how to recognize illegal orders.

    There are also the reports of agents calling Randy Weaver with taunts about his dead wife over the bullhorn, which make it sound as if her targeting was indeed planned.

    Think about this: would you have followed an order to taunt a man, however evil he was, assuming that someone on your team had accidentally killed her? What kind of man do you think would do such a thing?

  • http://gravatar.com/hubbard2a Alec

    I could have sworn that snipers ( all cops really) are responsable for every bullet fired. Snipers have to ensure that their shots do not endanger anyone but the intended target. While the wife may have been a person of intrest she was not a person causing harm and should not have been targeted. Further more the shot should not have been taken if she was in danger weather it be a direct hit or over penatration. Im sorry, but due to their neglagence , these two men should never work again in law enforcement or any job involving weapons and tactics since their “mistakes ” caused a loss of human life, and they showed no remorse or regret…….

  • Nunya Bidness

    “Zumbo” Mr Monroe AND Troy industries. Put them both out of busisness, Its time to stop being nice. These guys cannot have it both ways.

    Either they are with us or they are against us.

    Their position is pretty clear to me.

  • Dale III

    I just called Troy Industries, at 866-788-6412, and spoke with a very nice and polite young lady. I told her that I was calling in regards to Dale Monroe’s continued employment at Troy Industries. She kind of chuckled and said that everybody was currently in a meeting, but that she would be happy to transfer me to someones voicemail. I was quickly transferred to Mrs. Troy’s VM! lol I left a very polite message, stating that I would no longer purchase their products, and that I had already informed my regular retailers that I would no longer be purchasing Troy products from them, and why.

    Give them a call, but be polite.

    • Wil Radford

      I just called as well. Essentially the same result. Fire mission Time. Some one light up ar15.com with their Phone number if it hasn’t been done already.

  • Bkelly47

    Never buying another thing from Troy again.

  • Mark

    Firstly, the firearms industry exists for the freeman. Were it not for firearms and the citizen soldier defending his liberties against enemies foreign and domestic they’re wouldn’t be a need to have armies or police to keep the innocent safe and the law abiding free. That the firearms industry equips both military and police is a given in a free society, which is to say that we do not live in a police state nor under military rule and the constitution clearly outlines the people’s rights to liberty. So arms manufacturers do not belong to the state or do they exclusively arm the government forces to enslave the masses.

    Troy is making a huge mistake by condoning a previous illegal use of government power and hiring it’s key players as representitives of a U.S. manufacturer of sporting and defensive firearms.

  • thebronze

    F*ck Troy Industries! They’ll never get any more of my money.

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  • boo

    Nothing Troy shall enter my door until Steve Troy fires Mr Monroe, and then issues an apology via AR15.com’s forums… an apology for being a fucktard and not giving two shites about the sensibilities of his customers toward Mr. Weaver and his murdered family.

  • James Maguire

    Steve Troy can go fuck himself.

    Not a penny of my money will ever be spent on his products, and they are not welcome in my shop or on my range.

  • Andy waters

    What is not mentioned in this post is the fact that these MURDERING BASTARDS that killed an unarmed woman holding her baby in the doorway of her home, then went on their merry way to take part in the murders of the Branch Dividians in WACO Texas. Check it out, there are videos out there that these low lifes actually shot themselves bragging about what they were about to do just before they went in and slaughtered men, women and children at Waco. And this scum walks free today. There is a deep pit in HELL and these bastards WILL END UP THERE. It can’t happen soon enough.

  • Dr. R. L. Russell

    I won’t be spending any money with Troy.

    Dr. R..L. Russell

  • http://twitter.com/rescind John Carson (@rescind)

    There are some things in life that cannot be undone.

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  • Sean

    Make sure you write a brief (or long) email to Troy to let them know you won’t be buying their products anymore and why.

    service@troyind.com

    Let’s see how Troy does without a civilian customer base.

    I love Troy’s BUIS, but I’ll be buying Diamond Head from now on….just wish after this debacle I didn’t have so many freaking sets of Troy’s on all my rifles. :(

  • Sean

    Oh, and I could see Steve Troy’s defense of Dale Monroe a little more if he’d been employed with the company for years and they knew his personal stances on the 2A and he had a sense of regret for his testimony to Congress, etc….but he’s only been there 4 months or so and it seems that Steve truly believes that “just following orders” is an acceptable excuse for murdering innocents. Try telling that to the Nazis at Nuremberg.

  • Anonymous 2112

    Troy products are trash, I have never owned one, but you cal always get a couple free ones laying around the machine gun shoots or just look in a trash can at a local range. Pmag or Colt factory mags only.

  • http://jbnationalinvestigations.blogspot.com/2013/08/what-to-ask-when-hiring-private.html John Hop

    Its to bad they made these horrible choices. While some of their products suck beyond belief I do like their BUIS.

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  • Derrin Derrick

    I’m surprised at what seems to be bad form as I thought Troy was an honorable company.
    I’m not familiar with the men or the cases, so I won’t speak to that until I know more. I won’t be part of witch hunt just yet (not suggesting that Tim or anyone else here has things wrong either).
    I have been very happy with my Troy Carbine and my Troy products in the past. However, the debacle with Dick’s Sporting Goods (arguably not the fault of Troy) and now this may be too much for them to endure. Right or not, public opinion does matter and Steve Troy’s comments seem disconnected to say the least.
    I’m hoping this is resolved and Troy shows to be honorable. When we don’t know the personal opinions or politics of a business it is easy to support them based on product quality and value alone. It is why some choose to say nothing on hot-button issues. My Troy branded goods did not become crap overnight, but I will think twice before any more acquisitions.

  • Neil Stewart

    I just e-mailed the sales department to let them know I will not being buying their products.

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  • J. Bow

    Bye bye Troy! No more forme!

  • pilgrim

    I’ve got the SOF article about the Weaver trial… Lon’s sniper logbook has a hand drawn picture of the late Mrs. Weaver looking through a window holding a baby… He knew EXACTLY what he was shooting at, and had no remorse about it.

    I ain’t training with that guy.

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  • Korruptor

    Sorry, Troy, the Federal government already conceded culpability and wrongful death, when they paid out monies to Randy Weaver and family. Or had you not bothered to research the final disposition of the associated court cases?

    As the spotter, you are supposed to be the more educated, more experienced, and more situationally aware of the team. Calling this shot, on an unarmed woman carrying a baby, only proves your incompetence. There is no permutation of circumstances that can justify this murder.

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  • Support the second

    You bunch sure like sticking up for white supremacists and child rapists.

    • HasbaraBusters

      You sure like licking up the Ministry Of Propaganda drivel.
      Carry on, fool.

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  • SC

    Ruby Ridge, Waco, … I wonder what other cowardly JBT op’s these pieces of human excrement have been in on. Disgusting, forked-tongued, pieces of shit. Jody Weis, Dale Monroe, and Lon Horiuchi should ALL be swinging from a goddamned rope. Right along with the rest of them present at these traiterous events. They sold their souls. Now they get to pay the price. If the bastards ever show their faces around here, they’re DONE. And FUCK Troy Industries – they’ll never see a dime out of me, anyone I know, or anyone I CAN REACH.

  • Scott.Harrison

    Let’s not forget that Stephen P. Troy is a thief! That alone is reason not to buy

  • Lar Atwork

    His company his choice. My dollars my choice, Troy won’t be seeing any of my money.

  • Snyder

    Hey MAC on facebook Troy industries says that they have fired both employees…might be worth taking a look at

  • Paul Joe G

    I was going to pick up one of their slings, but nope.